Pro gun anti-abortion Catholic Senato...

Feedback.pdxradio.com message board: Archives: Politics & other archives: 2008: Jan, Feb, Mar -- 2008: Pro gun anti-abortion Catholic Senator endorses Obama in PA.
Author: Andy_brown
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 12:05 pm
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Sen. Bob Casey, PA.(D) endorsed Barack Obama today. Although Clinton still leads Obama according to the most recent polls, there is a lot of time left before Pennsylvania voters weight in.

Senator Leahy (D) of Vermont said Hillary has every right but no good reason to be extending the primary competition. Obama has dissolved large Clinton leads before. In the earlier primaries, the longer Obama had to talk to voters, the better he has done.

Author: Nwokie
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 12:29 pm
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Thats because the undemocratic democrat party are ignoring the voters in Michigan and Florida, who had no part in setting their primary date.

The demo primaries have been rigged by the demo leadership, and they will pay for it in Nov.

Author: Andy_brown
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 1:01 pm
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That is largely inaccurate. They are not ignoring voters in Michigan and Florida. Michigan and Florida were told if they moved up their primary date, the consequence would be the loss of representation at the convention. The voters representatives chose to ignore that warning. The voters representatives are at fault, but the voters still can vote in the general election and the electors get to vote in the electoral college.

Rigged? Clearly, you have no proof of that. The national Democratic Committee wouldn't gain anything by doing that, anyway. If anything, they deserve credit for standing up and trying to provide a level playing field for the primaries. Michigan and Florida voters became disenfranchised in the primaries because their elected representatives made that decision.

The big surprise in November isn't going to be what you think.
The reign of the right ended years ago when shrub ignored all his promises to the conservatives. His financial disaster, his mismanagement of a war in Iraq that never should have been waged, his dismissal of military leaders who's advice was ignored, his scorching of the earth, his alienation of key allies in the war on terror, etc. It all adds up to big big losses for the Republicans. The more a Republican embraces the Bush failures, the worse their chances in November.

Author: Deane_johnson
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 1:04 pm
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What the Republicans know that the Democrats don't seem to is that Bush is not the candidate in 2008.

Author: Chickenjuggler
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 1:12 pm
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I know it.

Author: Missing_kskd
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 1:12 pm
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McCain equals a third Bush term, unless he comes right out and repudiates his policies.

McCain accepted and asked for a Bush endorsement. After having been thrown under the bus, and returning the favor with numerous endorsements for Bush, he didn't even get one by name from Bush when it came time for Bush to return the favor!

A total tool.

These things are not done, unless the support is supposed to be a good thing. Bush isn't a good thing. Getting his support is really saying, if you support Bush, then please support me because I'll do right by you.

Well, for that endorsement to actually do any good, it means McCain is obligated to continue to leverage the 23 percenters! That's a big part of how we got here in the first place!

See how that all works?

Author: Deane_johnson
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 1:21 pm
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"repudiates his policies. "

Which ones.

Author: Missing_kskd
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 1:27 pm
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If you have to ask...

Author: Nwokie
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 1:32 pm
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The voters had no say in moving the primary dates. So the Demos are ignoring the voters, because of actions by the demo leaders.

Certain elements of the demo leadership want the nomination to go to Obama, as they think he's "electable' and Hillary isn't. So they have tried to rig the race.

Author: Chickenjuggler
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 1:46 pm
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Uh huh.

Author: Deane_johnson
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 1:51 pm
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I suspect the big time Dems in DC are a bit tired of the Clintons. They may figure that a young upstart like Obama is more controllable.

Author: Missing_kskd
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 2:00 pm
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Actually, I think it might be something a bit different, or maybe some combination.

I do think there are people tired of the Clintons, but I don't think that's a key driver for what is happening.

The big time Dems are seeing the party change from the ground up. A changing of the guard is happening right now. It will happen to the GOP too, once they are forced to deal after this election.

The parties serve the people. The people have stated quite clearly they want significant change and not lip service. Obama stepped in, seeing the political times as being pivotal --key, in that things are wide open.

That was not the establishment game plan at all --on either side, because it's a lot of the same established interests! They were planning on setting some expectations. Obama reset them!

Clinton also saw that time and feels some entitlement to it, and that's the rub here. Obama running really means no entitlement and he's also the better choice. It's very similar to how Bill Clinton got his Presidential start.

She's going through the stages of healing right now. It's only a matter of time, not if she gets through them.

Nobody is rigging anything. There is enough motivated people out there, involved, to set that off the table. Given the SCOTUS implications, there is ZERO chance of a party coup of some kind happening.

Author: Deane_johnson
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 2:02 pm
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If Hillary should happen to lose PA, she'll almost be forced to drop out by the party.

Author: Missing_kskd
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 2:03 pm
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Exactly as she should.

And it's gotta be a solid win. Some minor league single digit win, leans Obama's way, not hers.

Author: Radioblogman
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 2:17 pm
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Once again, the state of Florida is involved in a decision that ignores the will of the voters.

Author: Deane_johnson
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 2:19 pm
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I don't think the State of Florida had anything to do with it. I think it was totally Democrat incompetence and control.

Author: Andy_brown
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 2:22 pm
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What the Democrats know that the Republicans refuse to acknowledge publicly is that a significant percentage of the GOP base rejects McCain based on his history, based on his endearment of Bush policy as executed for 7 years and McCain's liability as a short tempered hot head. What this may results in is a lack of support at the voting booth in the general election. Leading conservatives such as Rush Limbaugh, Laura Ingraham, and Ann Coulter have spoken out boldly against McCain. McCain was booed at the Conservative Political Action Conference.

The Republicans are in big trouble.

Author: Deane_johnson
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 2:24 pm
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"a significant percentage of the GOP base rejects McCain based on his history,"

That's the only one you got right, but you can be sure the Republicans will not vote for Obama over McCain just because he isn't conservative enough.

Author: Radioblogman
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 2:24 pm
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I wasn't talking about the State of Florida, but the state of Florida in general.

Author: Missing_kskd
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 2:26 pm
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Really?

Which ones?

A lot of Republicans I know are going to vote Democratic this coming election. Batch of them switched too, just like I did.

Author: Radioblogman
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 2:26 pm
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All McCain has to do it at least announce a reasonable plan to remove the troops from Iraq within one or two years and he would win.

Author: Nwokie
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 2:29 pm
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Ok, Andy if thats true, why do polls consistantly show McCain at over 50% and Obama or Clinton in low 40's?

Author: Andy_brown
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 2:41 pm
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First, the polls have swung around as the primary fight in the Democratic party has consumed the news cycle. Previously both Hillary and Obama led McCain in the head to head polls, and the most recent polls show the current McCain lead shrinking. So your use of the word "consistent" is not accurate.

Secondly, and more important, the polls are based on samples and are mostly done by telephone. Voting in many states requires going someplace in the car on a work day, waiting in line and filling out a ballot. We have it easy here in Oregon. Adverse weather, family needs, business taking you out of town, etc. can take the wind out of the sails of a persons desire to vote. You have to really be wanting to support a candidate to go to the polls when life makes it a major inconvenience. That's what is going to happen to McCain. The very same conservatives that showed up for Bush may not be there for McCain, especially when conservative pundits are telling people he's not a Conservative and doesn't have their interests at heart. There will also be a segment of conservatives whom do go to the polls and don't vote for President at all, choosing to support state and local Conservatives of their liking. This happens in every election, but the swell of Democrats coming out to vote against another 4 years of Bush-like leadership on the war and the economy requires that the Republicans muster up even more Conservatives to come out and vote than did in '00 and '04.

Author: Radioblogman
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 2:42 pm
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Nwokie, that it because Democratic voters are still confused by the acrimony of the two candidates.

When Obama finally gets the nomination, all he has to do is keep reminding voters that McCain says the 4,000 troop deaths and the countless number of permanently injured troops is OK to prop up a corrupt system in Iraq.

Then it will be 75 percent Obama and 25 percent McCain.

Author: Missing_kskd
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 2:57 pm
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"100 years of war." -- McCain GOP Presidential Hopeful, Endorsed by George W. Bush.

Done, next.

Author: Vitalogy
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 7:57 pm
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First off, the Florida primary was moved up by the Republican majority in Florida, and endorsed by the Republican governor, Crist. Democrats had no power of that process. I'm not sure what the case was in Michigan. Either way, the punishment was spelled out ahead of time, but both states went forward anyway. And let's not forget, half of FL GOP delegates area also being penalized.

As usual, Nwokie is full of horse shit.

Secondly, McCain is going to lose in a landslide, no matter the nominee for the Democrats. McCain = Bush 3.0. Same failed polices, same failed vision, same lack of results. A majority will vote to see some different results, the ones McCain isn't up to the challenge to provide.

Author: Skybill
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 8:48 pm
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Secondly, McCain is going to lose in a landslide, no matter the nominee for the Democrats.

I think you are going to be surprised.

I won't predict a winner because I don't know who will win, but what I think is going to happen is it is going to be a very close election.

Please don't take this as racist or sexist and are certainly not my opinions, but I think there will be people that won't vote for Obama only because he's Black and won't vote for Hillary because she's female.

Author: Amus
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 10:14 pm
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"I think there will be people that won't vote for Obama only because he's Black and won't vote for Hillary because she's female."

And I would contend that most people with this mindset are hardcore Republicans anyway.

Author: Andy_brown
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 10:39 pm
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Don't take this as partisan or whacko leftist as they may not be my opinions, but:

There will be conservative people that won't vote for McCain because he's not a true Conservative.

And there will be young people that won't vote for McCain because he's too old.

And there will be old people that won't vote for McCain because he's changed many of his positions from what they were before he announced his candidacy and they haven't changed their positions.

And there will be middle aged people that won't for McCain because they are struggling financially and McCain's economic plan is to basically do nothing.

There will be some recently retired high ranking military personnel who won't vote for McCain because he embraces the George Bush war policy in Iraq as his own.

Author: Skybill
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 11:15 pm
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I would suspect that the people that won't vote for Obama simply because of his race are mostly in the South.

I don't think there is any real geographic area for the chauvinists.

Author: Skeptical
Friday, March 28, 2008 - 11:31 pm
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There are also going to be people that vote for McCain because "M" comes before "O".

Author: Missing_kskd
Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 9:04 am
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I think we are talking about many of the same people!

It's not a full overlap, but a pretty solid one, IMHO.

The set of "won't vote black" voters, for example, is shared with the set of 23 percenter "axe grinders" who would vote GOP anyway. I don't know what the overlap is, but I think it's substantial.

Author: Deane_johnson
Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 9:08 am
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If Obama is the candidate, and he probably will be, I don't think we can have any idea what the final outcome might be relative to racial voting.

Obama comes about as close to having his skin color not being a factor as anyone I've seen. It's very easy to forget what color he is and focus rather on his personality and presentation, as it should be.

Author: Vitalogy
Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 11:15 am
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Racial voting won't matter, ideas will. And Obama's ideas will win more votes than the idea of a Bush third term.

Author: Trixter
Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 5:40 pm
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What the Republicans know that the Democrats don't seem to is that Bush is not the candidate in 2008.

But if McCain is going to use the White House for BUSINESS AS USUAL then DUHbya is a candidate.

Author: Nwokie
Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 5:42 pm
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What Obama Idea's, he hasn't given any except "trust me".

Author: Trixter
Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 6:03 pm
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What's McCain's idea except for keep killing more Iraqi's???
Business as usual.

BREAKING NEWS!!!!!
It isn't working..... Continue down that path and recession will continue, NATIONAL DEBTS will continue to climb, and THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of our young men and women will be SLAUGHTERED.

Author: Andy_brown
Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 8:04 pm
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"What Obama Idea's, he hasn't given any except "trust me""

He hasn't given any? Or you just don't want to hear them?
His message is clear as a bell. You just don't want to open yourself to any message except that with which you agree. It's all spelled out on his website, in his ads, in his speeches.
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf
It's not a question of having different views, it's a question of denying facts and information which is available to you but that you not only reject but also disavow existence thereof.
Go ahead and state your opinions, but don't make such obviously unfounded claims like "he hasn't given any [Ideas]."
That's just juvenile.


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