As that magical day approaches, I sometimes wonder what will become of W after his 8 years of destruction is concluded. What kind of a post-presidential life will he enjoy? I can't see him hitting the lucrative speech circuit, unless he's doing the comedy club circuit and resurrecting Norm Crosby's mangled English language material. Will he flee the country to Paraguay and live out his days in relative obscurity as the "tell all" books by current staffers flood the shelves?

He has so much great material he definitely could go on tour.

He could call it the "When wings take dream" tour.

Chances are that the former President will relax by going for a swim...in a pool filled with money...more money than any of us could ever dream of having!!! It will be a leisurely life for the former Prez.

I could very well see him using some of that money to try to help further political causes of his choice. Perhaps he will get wrapped up in trying to promote "intelligent design" as a persecuted "alternative view" to evolution, in the same way as Ben Stein is doing now.

Maybe he could impersonate Gallagher and call it the "puttin' food on the family" tour.

Actually, he will be indicted by the World Court for war crimes.

Unlikely. The United States withdrew from compulsory jurisdiction in 1986, and so accepts the court's jurisdiction only on a case-to-case basis.

Mr. Bush will be remembered as "A uniter, not a divider."

Plus, unlike Mr. Clinton, he was never impeached.

History will be even kinder to Mr. Bush than Mr. Nixon. And Mr. Nixon is now seen as a very good president by many. Given all the dreck thrown at him, including peaceniks and murderous commies, I place Mr. Nixon up there near Lincoln.

Herbert Walker Milhous

Nixon was a caring saint compared with Shrub, who has dishonored the Bush name.

"Nixon was a caring saint..."

I'll take that and run with it.

Thirty years ago, hearing anything nice said about Mr. Nixon was the stuff of dreams. Now, Mr. Nixon is indeed appreciated for some of his good deeds.

Herb

"Now, Mr. Nixon is indeed appreciated for some of his good deeds."

No...he's appreciated in relation to the current president.

Mr. Bush will be remembered as "A uniter, not a divider."

What exactly did he unite? Besides the country, and the world's, agreement that he's doing a lousy job, I mean.

Honestly, it depends on how Iraq really turns out. If by some magic Iraq becomes a success story, a strong, democratic ally in the middle east as a direct result of Bush's blundered occupation, then Bush may be remembered like Truman. At this point I see it as more likely Bush will be remembered like LBJ without LBJ's domestic achievements.

What's ironic is how Vietnam has turned out. After America's dramatic defeat there, Vietnam has become a strong trading partner. Had the government of South Vietnam prevailed somehow after American troops left in 1973 and we wound up with a united Vietnam with our current relationship with them, would LBJ be remembered differently, even though the result would be the same? If America pulls out of Iraq and there are dark times then in 30 years Iraq winds up a friend and trading partner, Bush will still look bad in history, like LBJ does.

Andrew

Actually, Nixon did do some good things, like creating the Department of Education and opening the door to China.

If he had not been so insecure and Watergate had never happened, he would be seen as one of the finer Republican presidents we ever had.

If nothing decisive happens in Iraq before his term is up, his legacy will be forever tarnished by the 5+ years his administration slogged its way through without a plan. Should Iraq eventually become a success, the next President will reap the rewards of turning Bush's fiasco into a success. I think Bush's legacy stands as a no-win situation for him, and until someone worse comes along, his place in history is secure.

I could very well see Bush getting behind promoting intelligent design, his version of "bio ethics," or even protection of "the traditional family," and millions of Evangelical Christians gullibly proclaiming him a hero for doing so. They will quickly forget the fiasco of Iraq, especially if the next President manages to clean it up somehow.

"I could very well see Bush getting behind promoting intelligent design..."

I think that qualifies as ironic.

"until someone worse comes along, his place in history is secure."

I don't know. It's neck and neck between the shrub and Nixon for worst performance in a leadership role. Bush is the winner from a lack of accomplishments point of view, but Nixon outdoes him as the most evil, foul, vial, and cretinous leader we have had. Perhaps we should give out separate awards.

Bush has been a successful president for his base:

- two ultra-conservative Supreme Court justices (net gain of one), probably enough to destroy Roe v. Wade in time.
- big tax cuts for the wealthy, at least temporarily
- huge increase in defense spending
- avoiding big increases in social spending

Looking back on Clinton's presidency, he did little for his base although of course he helped create the booming economy and budget surpluses. But there were only incremental improvements to healthcare (while costs started to soar out of control), about the same balance of supreme court justices as when he took office. No big improvements in educational, the environment. By contrast, he gave us Bush's NAFTA agreement and cut capital gains taxes. Clinton may have done more for Bush's base than for his own.

Andrew

separate awards? Good idea. Nixon can claim the even numbered centuries and W the odd numbered centuries

"Plus, unlike Mr. Clinton, he was never impeached."

My only comment:

WHY NOT?

Seriously. What gives?

"...he helped create the booming economy and budget surpluses."

Yeah, by stripping our military and selling secrets to the communist Chinese.

Bill Clinton. A pal of Marc Rich.

Herb

Bush will be remembered for the things we know he has done and many more bad things that have yet to even come out fully, I believe. Documents will be released. When he dies, people who served with him will speak out against him. Telling stories about some things we all suspect, but are purposely being hidden from us.

Just like Nixon and Reagan.

"Bill Clinton. A pal of Marc Rich."

Marc Rich bothers you? Then get ready for the tidal wave of pardons (many pre-emptive, just like Nixon's) that will be issued by Bush on Jan. 19th.

Bush has united the terrorists and he's also united the world against the US. Bush is a disaster on all fronts. Even if Iraq turns out good, it won't matter. His lasting legacy will be the dumbfuck look on his face after he was told America was under attack (on his watch).

And as far as destroying the military, Bush has done far more damage to our military that Bill Clinton could ever have dreamed of. How many US troops died under Clinton's watch?

Bush sucks and the whole world knows it, except the folks like Herb who are delusional and desperate. The final stamp of disapproval for Bush will be the massive losses the GOP takes this fall in elections around the country.

I'm thinking he'll be remembered for saying "I'm a uniter, not a divider."
The school class project papers 10-20 years from now will probably involve determining if it was true or not.

Nixon was a punk and he turned tail and ran when things got tough.

I don't see how Herb can put Nixon and Lincoln in the same sentence and keep a straight face. Heck- I can't believe I just did myself.

Lincoln was a man Nixon was a wuss

Like many high level criminals, Nixon had intelligence but his prejudices blinded him. His own personality defects held back his potential to do much good when he had the chance. Bush, on the other hand, has limited intelligence and a much more friendly, almost congenial personality. Shrub may be a lot of things, but he isn't a racist like Nixon was. The other faults that defined Nixon include hypocrisy, paranoia, cynicism, spitefulness and self-pity. When the smoke clears, Nixon will continue to hold the title of Worst President Ever.

I don't think Nixon was spiteful, or nearly as stubborn as Dubya.

Nixon was not a dumb man. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing at all times. He was so paranoid though, that he had to know what everyone else was too, which is what led to him keeping everyone in his inner circle at arms length except for Henry Kissinger. Nixon was a master of diplomacy with our adversaries across the globe, however.

Bush is the exact opposite. From all accounts, a very friendly, congenial guy. Dubya has always listened to his advisors, even (especially) if the advice is shoddy. Unlike Nixon, Bush doesn't have a shred of ability in diplomacy.

Can you imagine Bush trying to open China up, meeting with Chou en-Lai and Mao? Or how he would deal with Brezhnev? We'd be walking on glass right now!

Bush will head off to his ranch to live out a glorious retirement and you people will be crying about someone else..

the world goes on...

Way to go Mc74. You just stop by and take yet another swipe at everybody here. You know what goes on in here yet time and time again you come right back in here and take another swipe at us.

What you're doing is using pdxradio as your personal toliet to dump your load of personal shit nobody lets you get away with anywhere else.

Speaking of Nixon, I stumbled on yet another book about him recently. It was a memoir from L. Patrick Gray, considered one of the major figures in Watergate (he was pictured on the cover of "All the President's Men"). Gray was the man Nixon appointed acting head of the FBI when Hoover died in 1972 and who famously burned files given to him by John Dean which had been removed from Howard Hunt's safe. (These were fake documents cooked up to make the Kennedys look bad - political dirty tricks.)

Gray wasn't such a bad guy - kind of a law and order type who was a bit naive and way over his head in a political job. In any case, one of the most interesting sections of his book is Gray's depiction of a searing conversation with Nixon in the Oval Office one afternoon during Gray's confirmation hearings. This was early 1973 and Nixon himself was feeling the pressure of Watergate, apparently. He was incoherent, rambling, paranoid, and intimidating, and he asked Gray to do some ethically difficult things. Gray found the whole experience traumatic; Nixon had been a hero to him and this was the day that showed him the "real" Nixon. The chapter about this meeting is one of the most graphic, personal descriptions of a meeting with Nixon I have ever read. (Gray backed it up with transcripts from the Oval Office recordings.)

Nixon was petty, paranoid, and vindictive; his recordings prove it. There have been other reports that Nixon was an alcoholic and addicted to sleeping pills during his time in office. He may have been a bold visionary in foreign policy but he was a deeply flawed man.

Andrew

Damn Andrew, you just made me buy another book at Amazon.com (with one-click, too). It was $7.85 used.

"...famously burned files given to him by John Dean..."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/01/29/national/main267968.shtml

John Dean = Serial perjurer

"John Dean = Serial perjurer"

According to G. Gordon Liddy, chief operative for the White House Plumbers unit that existed during several years of Richard Nixon's Presidency. Along with E. Howard Hunt, Liddy masterminded the first break-in of the Democratic National Committee headquarters in the Watergate building in 1972. The subsequent cover-up of the Watergate scandal led to Nixon's resignation in 1974; Liddy served four and a half years in prison for his role in the burglary.

Nice try Herb. Quit trying to revise history.

When it comes to John Dean, no revisionism is necessary.

http://www.blythe.org/nytransfer-subs/2001cov/Liddy_Blasts_John_Dean,_Jeb_Magrud er_in_Court_Testimony

Again, Liddy is a convicted felon. What he says has little weight in history, except for Herb's version.

Nixon = pathological LIAR!

Why are we talking about a dead president?

Sorry. BUSH SUCKS! WPE!!!!

(There, feel better now that we're back on topic for this thread?)

Andrew

I love revisionist history, pinning Watergate on John Dean based on the crackpot theory of convicted Watergate felon G. Gordon Liddy. To believe that Richard Nixon resigned because of a John Dean led effort to steal allegedly compromising documents about Mr. Dean’s wife is simply factually inaccurate. Richard Nixon resigned as president because if he didn’t, he would have wound up being convicted of high crimes and misdemeanors and removed from office.

But you have to give Mr. Liddy props for trying to pin Watergate on John Dean. Typical thought of most criminals, refusing to accept responsibility for their stupidity.

"Typical thought of most criminals, refusing to accept responsibility for their stupidity."

You could substitute "conservatives" for "criminals" and still be correct.

I can highly recommend the book "Silent Coup" (about Dean's alleged masterminding of the Watergate break-in to recover documents about his wife). It's a highly entertaining read. I don't know if two sentences in it are factually accurate but it's an amusing book!

Andrew

Why are we talking about a dead president?

Ask Herb....

Richard Nixon was an evil man -- evil in a way that only those who believe in the physical reality of the Devil can understand it. He was utterly without ethics or morals or any bedrock sense of decency. Nobody trusted him -- except maybe the Stalinist Chinese, and honest historians will remember him mainly as a rat who kept scrambling to get back on the ship. He was a cheap crook and a merciless war criminal who bombed more people to death in Laos and Cambodia than the U.S. Army lost in all of World War II, and he denied it to the day of his death. When students at Kent State University, in Ohio, protested the bombing, he connived to have them attacked and slain by troops from the National Guard.

Nixon had no friends except George Will and J. Edgar Hoover (and they both deserted him). It was Hoover's shameless death in 1972 that led directly to Nixon's downfall. He felt helpless and alone with Hoover gone. He no longer had access to either the Director or the Director's ghastly bank of Personal Files on almost everybody in Washington.

Hoover was Nixon's right flank, and when he croaked, Nixon knew how Lee felt when Stonewall Jackson got killed at Chancellorsville. It permanently exposed Lee's flank and led to the disaster at Gettysburg.

For Nixon, the loss of Hoover led inevitably to the disaster of Watergate. It meant hiring a New Director -- who turned out to be an unfortunate toady named L. Patrick Gray, who squealed like a pig in hot oil the first time Nixon leaned on him. Gray panicked and fingered White House Counsel John Dean, who refused to take the rap and rolled over, instead, on Nixon, who was trapped like a rat by Dean's relentless, vengeful testimony and went all to pieces right in front of our eyes on TV.

Excerpted from "He Was A Crook" by Hunter S. Thompson

Mr. Nixon was an honourable, though deeply flawed man.

God often works through imperfect people. That includes people like the Apostle Paul, who while he wrote much of the New Testament, previously had persecuted others unto death. It also includes Martin Luther, who although he translated the Bible into the language of the people and helped the masses escape the corruption and crushing inequities of the Roman church, yet made anti-semitic comments.

And that includes Richard Nixon.

We defeated Hitler and evil communism because of men like him.

Thank God almighty for Mr. Nixon. If it weren't for him, you'd either be speaking German, or Russian.

Herb

"Thank God almighty for Mr. Nixon. If it weren't for him, you'd either be speaking German, or Russian."

Please.

May I remind you that Nixon served at a supply depot, IN THE PACIFIC, during World War II? He never once fought in Europe.

And while I agree that Nixon did a good job dealing with Brezhnev and they established good working relations, to say that we would be speaking Russian if it weren't for Nixon is blasphemy. The Soviet economy and system was doomed to fail at some point, collapsing under its own weight.

Spare us. Have you nothing better to offer?

If the truth of Mr. Nixon standing toe-to-toe against an evil foe, whilst many American peace-niks attempted to sell our country out to Godless communism...isn't good enough, then I can't help you.

Herb

So it was only Nixon who "stood toe to toe" against those evil Communist do-gooders?

Truman didn't do so, in putting the United States first and foremost heading the UN action against North Korea's expansionist ploy?

It wasn't Eisenhower, who flished away a former alliance the US had with Ho Chi Minh to placate Charles de Gaulle and the French when they made their power grab for Indochina again? May I remind you of the future implications of that dealing.

It wasn't Kennedy, who stared down Khrushchev during the Cuban Missile Crisis and got the Soviets to blink? Or his failed try at the Bay of Pigs?

It wasn't Johnson, who left the office of President in disgrace, failing to enact his brainchild, his beloved Great Society social programs because of all of our money going into Vietnam, fighting .. you guessed it, the spread of Communism?

It wasn't Carter, who penned the Salt II treaties with Brezhnev only to have Congress fail to enact it on our end? Or how about Carter's boycotting the 1980 Moscow Olympics?

It wasn't Reagan standing at Brandenburg Gate with a simple message: "Mr. Gorbachev, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!"

Nixon is the ONLY ONE who stod toe-to-toe against "Godless Communism"?

"Mr. Nixon was an honourable... man. "

BULLSHIT!

excerpted from noises coming out of Andy's mouth between oatmeal and coffee belches on a Sunday morning.

!!!!

Totally! It's classic "ends can justify means" reasoning.

Joe killed the old lady, but he meant well, and nobody liked her, so that's ok. He's honorable.

"Nixon is the ONLY ONE who stod toe-to-toe against "Godless Communism"?"

Read my post. I never said that.

Me thinks thou dost protesteth too much.

Wail on a deceased former president all you want. It merely takes your eye off the ball for the next one who will overturn the dastardly Roe v. Wade.

Herb

If not for Jimmy Carter and his tough stance against the Soviets - starting the 1980s military build-up and funding covert action against them in Afghanistan - we'd all be speaking Russian now. Perhaps drinking Vodka too!

Andrew

Your statement from above Herb:
"Thank God almighty for Mr. Nixon. If it weren't for him, you'd either be speaking German, or Russian."

My statement you quoted:
"Nixon is the ONLY ONE who stod toe-to-toe against "Godless Communism"?"

YOU are the one that said Nixon is solely responsible for the fall of the Third Reich and the Soviet Empire.

I'm just quoting what you said.

"...solely..."

Never said 'soley,' although Mr. Nixon did do more with his little pinky finger to keep us free than all the non-veterans on this board, myself included, combined.

Herb

"Nixon did do more with his little pinky finger to keep us free"

Nixon was a criminal.
His intent was evil. Any positive outcome was collateral to his mission.

Latest Round of Tapes Reveals More of Richard Nixon's Anti-Semitic, Homophobic, 'Axis of Paranoia!'
21-Mar-02
Richard Nixon
As if recently released conversations between Tricky Dick and Billy Graham weren't moronic and anti-Semitic enough, newly reviewed tapes show Nixon wasn't just convinced that "Jews controlled the media." No, the conspiracy, in his mind, had far greater implications - "marijuana, psychiatry, homosexuality and Meathead of All in the Family" were also enemies of the state. In one gem of an exchange Nixon states, "You know, it's a funny thing, every one of the bastards that are out for legalizing Marijuana is Jewish. What the Christ is the matter with the Jews, Bob? What is the matter with them? I suppose it is because most of them are psychiatrists." (Nixon does not explain how these "pot smoking, Jewish psychiatrists" found the time to control the media.) On the "Meathead" character, in "All in the family," Nixon frets, "The-son-in-law apparently goes both ways," then concludes, that another character in the show, "Is obviously queer. He wears an ascot, and so forth."

Jesus H. Christ!

Perhaps Alan Greenspan has something nice to say about Nixon, for whom he worked? Oh dear, perhaps not:

Nixon assembled the senior staff [July 1968, campaign] at Gurney's Inn...Nixon already knew he had enough votes for the nomination, and this was meant to be a working session to frame the issues he wanted to hit in his acceptance speech. When we sat down at the conference table, though, for some reason he was angry. Instead of the policy discussion I was expecting he launched into a fulmination about how the Democrats were the enemy. He didn't raise his voice, but his speech was so intense and so laced with profanity that it would have made Tony Soprano blush. I was stunned; this was not the man I had been dealing with. I had no inkling then that I was observing an important part of the Nixon personality. I couldn't understand how a single human being could have such different sides. After a while he subsided and the meeting went on, but I never looked at him the same way after that. It so disturbed me that after the election, when I was invited to join the White House staff, I said, "No, I much prefer to go back to my job."

A member of the Clinton administration once was accusing Nixon of anti-Semitism, and I said, "You don't understand. He wasn't exclusively anti-Semitic. He was anti-Semitic, anti-Italian, anti-Greek, anti-Slovak. I don't know anybody he was pro. He hated everybody."...When Nixon left office, I was relieved. You didn't know what he might do, and the president of the United State has so much power that it's scary

[From "The Age of Turbulence" p. 59]

Ouch! To think Alan Greenspan and Hunter S. Thompson agreed on something!


Andrew

21-JAN-2009

The question isn't if Mr. Nixon made anti-Semitic statements. Clearly, like many others, including such vaunted luminaries as Martin Luther, he did.

The question is, flawed as he was, did his actions help the Jewish state in a most crucial time, and did he appoint Jewish people to high levels within his cabinet? And the answer to both is clearly "Yes."

There's as much hatred for Mr. Bush on this board than there was from Mr. Nixon toward the Jews.

Herb

Jimmy carter "Military buildup" this was the guy that cancelled several carrier battle groups, and cut the active army by several divisions.

Nixon was a wuss! He turned his back on America and ran.

As usual, all the left has is name calling.
Have you ever considered, Trixter, that by doing so, you place yourself with Mr. Nixon...a man whom you so despise?

Herb

The facts are in, Herbie.

Nixon was a thief and a scoundrel.

Nixon deserves no accolades, no praise, and no breaks.

He was evil. Period.

Mr. Nixon won the presidency twice, once by landslide.

Unlike the democrat Mr. Clinton, Mr. Nixon was never impeached, nor did he have military secrets de-classified for their sale to our enemy.

Mr. Nixon stood toe-to-toe against the evil communists.

God bless Mr. Nixon.

Herb

Pull up your pants, Herb. Geeze. It's disgusting to see you do this. You sound like the crazy old pervert in the house around the corner that all the kinds are warned never to go near.

Nixon will be burning in YOUR proverbial hell, Herbie, forever.

http://www.nixonlibraryfoundation.org/

It is a pretty neat museum, I must say.

Herb

Bush is a legend in his own mind. Oh, and you know Nixon's museum isn't bad, been there myself. Johnson's is MUCH better and free to get in.

Nixon and Johnson had a lot in common.

Both Lt Cmdrs in the navy during WWII, both knew how to cuss, when needed.

Both enacted major civil rights legislation.

Hunter S Thompson once said of Nixon that if he had been any more evil he would "have glowed in the dark".

I liked Hunter S. Thompson, even met him once,
don't agree with a lot he said, but I think he was the best writter of his generation!

I even used some of his articles for my lecture, I had to give when I went to the General Staff college, maybe thats why I never got promoted?

That's one possible reason.

Herb: "God bless Mr. Nixon."

I pray not ever on this great Earth.

"President Richard Nixon ... in which he repeatedly lashes out against Jews and makes anti-Semitic remarks. Appearing to view "the Jews" as the root of all his problems, Nixon complained that Washington "is full of Jews" and that "most Jews are disloyal."

Nixon did believe that top aides Henry Kissinger, Leonard Garment and William Safire were exceptions, but he said to his chief of staff, H.R. Haldeman, "generally speaking you can't trust the bastards. They turn on you. Am I wrong or right?" Haldeman agreed. Nixon told Haldeman that the Jews needed to be brought under control by putting someone "in charge who is not Jewish" in key agencies.

After a report by the Bureau of Labor Statistics was released showing that unemployment was rising, Nixon wanted to fire the agency's director, Julius Shiskin. He asked Charles Colson to investigate the ethnicity of officials at the Bureau. "They are all Jews?" Nixon asked when Colson gave him a list of names.

On another occasion, Nixon and Haldeman discussed Jewish penetration of the National Security Council staff. Nixon asked if Tony Lake, then an aide to Kissinger, was Jewish. Nixon thought he looked Jewish. Lake, who served as Clinton's National Security Adviser is not Jewish.

When a survey was released in 1971 showing that a majority of the supporters of antiwar demonstrations came from affluent neighborhoods in Washington, Nixon attributed the results to the Jews. "Bob," he told Haldeman, "there's a lot of Jews in the District, see...The gentiles have moved out."

Source: Washington Post, (October 6, 1999)

"Hunter S Thompson once said..."

You quote a pathetically degenerate and suicidal drug-addict in a ham-fisted attempt to besmirch a fine president.

Classic leftist spin.

I'll believe much of what Henry the K or Chuck Colson have to say. Not Mr. Thompson.

Herb

Nwokie, you claim to have attended the general staff college before you were rifted back to E-7.

You have to be a major to attend that college and earlier you said the highest rank you reached was captain.

What gives. Do you want to post your DD214 here as you demanded of Kerry?

Herbie: Way to try and get past the previous piece from the Washington Post, but it won't work.

Kissinger? Don't make me laugh!! The Trial of Henry Kissinger, a book written as a multicount indictment of Kissinger for war crimes and other offenses by Christopher Hitchens reveals the truth about Kissinger.

What are the alleged offenses? They range from mass killings of civilians in Indochina, Bangladesh, and East Timor to involvement in plans to commit murder in Bangladesh, Chile, Cyprus, and Washington. In a rare act of charity toward his subject, Hitchens says he left out of the bill of particulars conduct that falls into the category of merely "depraved realpolitik," such as the betrayal of Iraqi Kurds who were invited by the U.S. to rise up against Saddam Hussein in the mid-1970s. Such behavior, the author says, doesn't seem to violate any laws.

A quarter of the book is devoted to Kissinger's machinations during the Vietnam War. They start with what Hitchens contends is Kissinger's role as a double agent during the 1968 Presidential campaign. The book alleges that then-Harvard professor Kissinger used his contacts with the Johnson Administration's negotiators to alert Richard M. Nixon's campaign to developments at the Paris peace talks. He says the Nixon team then persuaded the South Vietnamese to pull out of the negotiations on the eve of the election to deprive Vice-President Hubert H. Humphrey, the Democratic nominee, of a coveted peace plank. After Nixon was elected, Kissinger counseled against any U.S. troop withdrawal before the autumn of 1972 to avoid possible negative fallout in that year's U.S. election. Hitchens blames countless resulting deaths on Kissinger.

Assuming the facts are accurate--and Hitchens relies on memoirs of participants--does this amount to a war crime? It would not be the all-too-familiar crime of genocide, but rather the misdeed of continuing aggression. International-law experts have long struggled unsuccessfully to define that one.

Other incidents Hitchens cites include the assassination of Bengali leader Sheik Mujibur Rahman, which the author believes had backing from Washington. But he admits that subpoena power is needed to prove it. "The task of disproving such a connection, meanwhile, would appear to rest on those who believe that everything is an accident," he writes. Not quite: In courts, the burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defense.

Similar problems surround Hitchens' discussion of the assassination of Chilean General Rene Schneider. Schneider opposed military meddling in elections, and his death paved the way for the 1973 coup against President Salvador Allende. But Hitchens' proof of Kissinger's involvement is hardly ironclad. While Washington was involved with Chilean coup plotters, it also voiced objections to a coup just before it took place. Hitchens dismisses the notion that the evidence is exculpatory as "logically feeble" and "morally contemptible."

Often Hitchens' book is far better written than argued. It is always deliciously cheeky if not totally persuasive. There is somehow a line between despicable behavior and a war crime. We're all still struggling to discover where that line is.

BACK ON TOPIC!

Hopefully, Mr. Bush will be put in charge of Haliburton Corp, and run it into the ground like he has everything else he's touched.

That would be absolutely poetic.

It would never happen because he is not smart enough to run a company like that. But it's a super funny idea.

He's not smart enough to run any company without someone to come along and bail him out, at least based on history.

I love it how Herb constantly brings up the point that, "unlike Mr. Clinton, Mr. Nixon was not impeached."

Well, that would be fine, except for the fact that Mr. Nixon RESIGNED IN DISCRACE to avoid being impeached. And, while Clinton was not convicted, Nixon would have been. Otherwise Nixon would not have needed the pardon from Mr. Ford.

Bush couldn't run a vacuum cleaner let alone a business.

OK, Nwokie, Terry Waller, I really need to see that DD214. I have now tracked down you statement that you left the Air Force reserves in 1991.

Did you bullshit about service in Vietnam as an Army officer? I think you should be prosecuted.

Look a little closer

Waller, you just confirmed you are a fraud.

Using the email address you provided here, I found sgtterry2001@yahoo.com's response on a yahoo site, where you claim to have left the Air Force in 1991.

You should be ashamed of yourself, claiming to be a former Oregon reserve police officer and Vietnam war veteran, and I hope you get some help for your obvious mental problems.

As usual, all the left has is name calling.
Have you ever considered, Trixter, that by doing so, you place yourself with Mr. Nixon...a man whom you so despise?

So YOU must be right there with me??? Herbocrite!

Ouch.

Herb?

And Waller, you were born May 1950, which would make you 18 in 1968 or 21 in 1971. There is no way you were an E-7 who went through OCS and served as an officer in Vietnam in that period.

Why the fraud?

Waller, I see you also edited the post denying you were that Waller.

Who was a waller....

Nwokie, the fraud

Nwokie!!!!!!!!!!!
Another neo-CONer bites the dust....

>>>>>I love it how Herb constantly brings up the point that, "unlike Mr. Clinton, Mr. Nixon was not impeached."

Well, that would be fine, except for the fact that Mr. Nixon RESIGNED IN DISGRACE to avoid being impeached. And, while Clinton was not convicted, Nixon would have been. Otherwise Nixon would not have needed the pardon from Mr. Ford.>>>>>

While reading this thread, I was think the same thing. Funny how Herb hasn't come up with a response.

Does anybody else get the feeling that in school, Herb was always the kid that was the last one picked during gym class games?

And beat up everyday during lunch.

He was the main target during DodgeBall and always seemed to get the football when playing smear the q****! (Gotta be PC these days).

(Gotta be PC these days)

No you don't! NOT according to the EXTREME RIGHT!

I'll bet HerrBee's hair was always wet, and his underwear was wedged up pretty tight!

Let's hear it for Swirlies and Flying Cheyennes!