"Drug usage makes for great recreational sport, especially when you're young."

"God is dead. May He rest in peace."

"Premarital, extramarital and perverted sex are moral and healthy if done 'properly' and with mutual consent."

"Radical feminism offers the only justice and equality for women."

"Divorce is an easy way out for the frustrated, disappointed or adventuresome."

From Family.org

I assume they were thinking mostly of Rush Limbaugh? As an example of someone who has been divorced multiple times, has used recreational drugs, flies to Mexico to have sex with prostitutes, and seems not to be the most religious person in the world? Gee, I wonder how many good, god-fearing right-wingers listen to Rush and hang on his every word?

Andrew

Kind of reminds me of Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart, Paul Crouch and Jim Bakker. Why is it that so many high profile evanglicals are caught with their pants down?

The Devil made them do it...

"has used recreational drugs"

How do you know this?

LMAO - yeah!! - THAT'S the point of contention.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/28/national/main1561324.shtml

Technically, Rush didn't use recreational drugs, he abused prescription painkillers by doctor shopping among several doctors. Popping 30+ pills a day does not qualify as recreational use either. It's called addiction.

We know this because he had a host of legal troubles regarding his illegal doctor shopping, went to rehab, and lost his hearing as a result of his abuse of painkillers.

Remember too, Limbaugh trying to sneak a bottle of Viagra through customs that were not prescribed to him. Not legal. Naughty, naughty.

So, Limbaugh became addicted to prescribed drugs, prescribed by is doctor when he had a painful condition. That's a bit different than using "recreational drugs". Doesn't make as interesting of a slam though, does it.

I wonder how many of Limbaugh's views are distorted because they are being filtered through an OxyContin induced psychosis.

What difference does it make if they were prescribed by a doctor or bought on the street? He still abused a controlled substance knowing that he could get addicted. And he obtained them in an unlawful way.

So, Rush is no better than the drug addicted street person when it comes to this subject. Luckily he had the money to seek help, but that doesn't limit the hypocrisy of his addiction.

A pig by any name is still a pig. Drug abuse is drug abuse. Only difference is he did not get them from the pusher on the corner. so I guess that makes it okey dokey then!

Rush Limbaugh, hypocrite extortionate, who rails against the drug culture, was forcing his maid to buy OxyContin for him illegally. If the bastard were man enough, he would have bought it himself – without behaving like a chicken s*it and hiding behind his maid's apron strings. The drug stopped being medicinal and became recreational when he stopped taking it as prescribed. If that isn't recreational use, then I don't know what is.

Viagra is not a recreational drug?

What does it allow you to do in your free time?

Uh-huh.

How much wood would Rush chuck if Rush could chuck wood?

I would argue against the term "recreational" to describe Rush's drug use. He was a professional. Recreational drug users are ones that use occasionally, not daily.

He was and addict!

I never thought of it that way -- in terms of recreational user vs. professional user. Rush certainly showed America what it means to be a professional junkie. He also showed us how valuable it is to have a high priced lawyer working to keep you out of jail. Had Rush Limbaugh been someone without notoriety or a bottomless bank account, I’m sure he would have spent time in the county lock-up.

Given that Rush Limbaugh had a very close brush with the law, do you think he and Clarence Thomas still hang out?

I personally don't distinguish between how drugs that led to an addiction are first obtained . If they are used for not their intended purpose, they are "recreational" if not an addiction. I don't give Rush more or less sympathy for his addiction than I do for a naive teenager who foolishly tries drugs at a party and gets hooked.

Actually, my response above wasn't a slam of Limbaugh's drug history more than it was a slam against the hypocrites on the right who post things like "Bad ideas from the 1960s" even though the people they worship like Limbaugh seem to have embraced many of those "bad ideas." People here have gone down the drug use tangent but I think Limbaugh's numerous failed marriages and his having sex with prostitutes make his worshipers just as hypocritical for embracing him.

Drug addiction is a terrible thing and victims of addiction should not be mocked; people who publicly rail against drug addiction, divorce, and illicit sex while privately indulging in these things should be mocked, as should the people who have heard the facts and still worship such fake heros.

Andrew

Amen!

Excuse me Broadway, but you put those items in quotes. Who exactly are they quotes from? Or are these just conservative bumber stickers to inflame people?

Warner,

It's from "Focus on the Family".
The outfit headed by James Dobson.

James Dobson's War on America

'Nuf said.

I do not consider myself a person who celebrates what my parents' generation did in its youth, but I think that there is a subtle irony in all this: Pay close attention to conservative talk shows, websites, writers, etc. You will very frequently hear that they present views that are not heard in the "mainstream media" or not part of "the (liberal) establishment!" They play the anti-establishment underdog role quite well when they think that it's useful. I wonder from whom they learned that trick?!???

"They play the anti-establishment underdog role quite well when they think that it's useful. I wonder from whom they learned that trick?!???"

"The era of American politics that has been dying before our eyes was born in 1966. That January, a twenty-seven-year-old editorial writer for the St. Louis Globe-Democrat named Patrick Buchanan went to work for Richard Nixon..."

New Yorker

The whole article is a good read. It is chock full of bad ideas from the 1960s.

>>James Dobson's War on America

bogus data/book...Dobson/Focus on the Family has a long time heart for the families of America to be healthy...healthy families...a healthy America...makes A LOT OF SENSE!!!

>>but you put those items in quotes

sorry...cut/pasted from web site in qoutes...don't know why

Dobson is the Devils's handmaiden.

James Dobson and Laura Schlessinger should get married. They'd make a fiendish couple.

Then they'll BOTH be needing Viagra as a recreat(e)-ional drug.

(I think I just threw up a little bit in my mouth picturing those two together.)

>>Dobson is the Devils's handmaiden.

Have you ever listened to his daily radio show?

Content a far cry from your description of him.

I'm sure Mr. Dobson is just fine as long as you don't have a problem supplanting our Democratic Republic with a Christian Theocracy.

>>Christian Theocracy

Maybe not a bad thing but his agenda is more individuals/families...About Focus link...

http://www.focusonthefamily.com/about_us.aspx

"Maybe not a bad thing"

Not as long as you are among the "in crowd".
Kinda sucks for those on the outside looking in.

"Move over George Washington. James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family, wants to take your place as father of our country. But rather than being a true father -- one who helps us mature into individuals -- he is little more than another Pharisee, setting himself up as a religiously-based political dictator bent on getting us to support his personal view of legislated morality.
And what's even worse, Dobson goes to great length to use Scripture to support his view, and yet according to Time magazine he doesn't even have any formal theological training. In short, Dobson, using his position as a radio psychologist, has set himself up as our moral authority and asks us all to blindly follow."

http://www.elroy.net/ehr/dobson.html

Isn't it time for this guy, and his dominionist nut-bag friends to go home?

>>James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family, wants to take your place as father of our country

Good grief, the opinion of one persons web site which I term freeky...from elroy.net

Readings for those who want to stand on the edge of mystical knowledge and ponder its implications without being sucked into the black hole of unanswerable questions

and when Time magazine has preference/credibility over the Bible...time out...pun intended.

"the opinion of one persons web site which I term freeky...from elroy.net "

Well it also seems to be the opinion of one Gil Alexander. A co-founder of FOF.

http://www.ralliance.org/Alexander-Moegerle.html

Dobson is all about political power. In fact, he was pissed when conservative Christian ministers parted ways with the Bush Administration on the environment and global warming. I'm sure he felt it put his credibility as a leader of the conservative Christian movement in question. The bunda not falling into line and such. He's no different than Pat Robertson and the late Jerry Farwell.

>>one persons web site

ok....ya got 2 but this guy was fired from Focus years ago for an affair so he has an axe to grind here...most of what he says on his site does not represent Focus.

The name (Focus on the Family) is the mission and at times reaches into public policy/politics but Dobson does not dwell on it continually...believe me...I follow this group closely.

Dan what was the story with Mike Trout?

Wasn't he the one of the upper echelon people who got caught having an affair? Or was he the leader of the FoF "ex" and "former" gay exodus group who was caught cruising in a gay bar? Gosh, it's sure hard to keep score!

Here's why I why would never take that A-hole creep seriously: Dog abuser.

In his own words:
http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/DobsonsDog.html

>>Mike Trout?
yes sadly Mike was the #2 co-host that succumbed an emotional affair he said but was asked to leave. Every organization/business has personel problems that involve sexual/interpersonal improprieties...Christians are not immune.

>>creep seriously: Dog abuser.

good grief...guess you don't bet/watch the horse races these days. Dobson writes about one scenario of a discipline action with his dog and you write him off...and written by an anti-spanking "evangelist"...guest we need to start another thread here...to me part of the problems of society...no discipline in their youth.

Of course I don't support, watch, or bet on horse races, or dog or cock races or fighting. And I'm surprised if you do, Mr. Christian.

I heard Merkin loved the cock fights.

Hers always takes first place.

That's because your cock is...

Oh, darn, I forgot about my vow

Cock fight.

Now there's another interesting visual.

I see that Dr. James Dobson, religious bigot extraordinaire, is criticizing Senator Obama for not following his narrow interpretation of the Bible. Once again, this evangelical bigot is attacking Senator Obama because the one thing that James Dobson holds in the highest regard, political power, is slipping away. No worry, he can hang out with Oklahoma Senator "No gays in my family" James Inhofe and Oklahoma’s junior Senator, the windbag Dr. Josef Mengele Coburn.

Once Senator Obama wins the presidency, Dobson will be left without any real power in administration circles. That’ll leave him with his cult like compound in Colorado, a hate filled radio program and an evangelical movement that sees him as nothing more than another evangelical has been. Maybe he’ll hire Ted Haggard to join his circus of sickness. I heard today that Ted left treatment early.

I saw that too about Dobson.

There is a perfect example of a man I do not trust to help me shape my ideas. Not just because I may disagree with him on some small or even big issues - I do not trust that he is anything but politically motivated. He's drunk with his own power. I don't like him for it.

Not been a fan of Dobon's for years. Even though the station I voice track for runs his daily commentary. Thank goodness I don't have to listen to it.

I've been waiting to see who would write an Obama book. I knew one had to be coming. There have been so many about Bush I guess it's time for one the other side to step it up.

This is from a yahoo.com article:

"I think he's (Obama) deliberately distorting the traditional understanding of the Bible to fit his own worldview, his own confused theology," Dobson said.

I would say the same could be said about Dobson.

Don't you love politics. It brings out the very beast in us.

Is this just a taste of what's to come?

Hopefully, this crap will blow up in Dobson's face and backfire hugely for/on him.

Good grief...have any of you listened to Dobsons program today and heard his input...which by the way he does a tribute to Tim Russert at the beginning. It comes down to your interpretation of the Bible and Dobson is pointing out that Obama is using scripture for his political purpose/gain. The Obama speech that is heard on Focus's program was given 2 years ago and hardly no one has heard it and has many religious comments...Dobson is just responding.

Dobson has been responding over the years as part of the political landscape. This is not new territory for James. I think Dobson is having a hard time with the movement within young evangelicals who are asking that the political and religious conversation diversify beyond abortion and gay marriage.

Here you have a democratic presidential nominee who has been forthright about his faith. The GOP and conservative old guard evangelicals are having a hard time dealing with the Christian/left/progressive infusion into politics. Dem's are seen as the God-less party. Nothing can be further from the truth and Obama is rattling your religious boat because he's reaching those the GOP can't.

Dobson is so far out of touch as is McCain.

Deane_johnson:
So, Limbaugh became addicted to prescribed drugs, prescribed by is doctor when he had a painful condition. That's a bit different than using "recreational drugs". Doesn't make as interesting of a slam though, does it.

It makes him a hypocrite which is the point. Same goes for Haggard and his preaching. Funny thing is, if we were talking about liberals doing these things, you would be at the front of the lynching line.

>>a hypocrite

welcome to the human race...we're all guilty of double standards in different areas of our lives...none perfect...lets just realize our sin and give it to God and try not to repeat.

>>Dobson is so far out of touch as is McCain

And the person in touch with America is.......???

Whoops...need to start a new thread....

>>Obama is rattling your religious boat

If there ever was a modern day example of a "wolf in sheep's clothing" (a Biblical reference/not to mean anything racist) Obama fills the bill.

God help America to see this man in his true motives and ideals.

"God help America to see this man in his true motives and ideals."

Broadway, what specifically do you know these to be?

In keeping with the thread topic:

Herb, Broadway, and Wayne!

"Technically, Rush didn't use recreational drugs, he abused prescription painkillers by doctor shopping among several doctors. Popping 30+ pills a day does not qualify as recreational use either. It's called addiction.

We know this because he had a host of legal troubles regarding his illegal doctor shopping, went to rehab, and lost his hearing as a result of his abuse of painkillers."


Jee-Zus.
30 per day? It's a miracle he isn't DEAD,he's lucky to 'only' be deaf.
One or two of those pills in a day will put me on my A$$.
30? Good-Gawd-Man. 10 of them would probably put the average horse into a coma.
He must have had an unreal tolerance.

" God help America to see this man in his true motives and ideals."

Which are what, exactly?

"" God help America to see this man in his true motives and ideals."

Which are what, exactly?"

To move past the politics of old, in which the right wing conservative greedmongers wallow and whine and point fingers at everyone else for the problems they have brought upon the country. Most every failure, every problem, every defect in the American system is traceable to 20th century Republican conservative politics, their mishandling of the economy, foreign relations, domestic relations and matters of security.

I'd also like hear what you know about "his true motives and ideals".

Actually, wait - I take my request back. The truth is that I can't think of a subject I care less about than the resident " everything is about God all the time " guy's opinion about a candidate that he won't be voting for anyway. And besides, come on, we all know that Broadway won't actually come out and say it. Because it sounds ridiculous out loud. So he'll temper it with something less ridiculous ( taxes, health care policies ). But really, it's all about Obama not being enough like Broadway that makes Broadway so sure that he's a threat to America.

I'm only speaking for myself though. Not Amus or Warner.

"Enough like Broadway", hmmm.

Yeah, I wonder about that too. What is really behind BW's dislike of Obama?

Returning to the original topic of this hijacked thread:

'Tune in, turn on, drop out.' Timothy Leary

"I think Dobson is having a hard time with the movement within young evangelicals who are asking that the political and religious conversation diversify beyond abortion and gay marriage.

Chris,

Just heard Jim Wallis say just that today.

Amus-

Jim Wallis has been saying this for quite sometime. Dobson is just now realizing it.

As Jim would say, the monologue of the religious right is over.

"God help America to see this man in his true motives and ideals."

That's right, Broadway. Senator Obama wants to end the war in Iraq, make investments in this country where appropriate, end George W. Bush's go it alone, Wild West international diplomatic strategy, sunset the Bush Billionaire Stimulus Program, end No Child Left Behind, revisit the grotesque failures of Katrina, find a long term solution to the energy crisis…

Sounds like God will be very pleased Senator Obama.

Obamas concerns/false factoids:

1) "Selma Got Me Born" - NOT EXACTLY, your parents felt safe enough to have you in 1961 - Selma had no effect on your birth, as Selma was in 1965. (Google'Obama Selma' for his full March 4, 2007 speech and articles about its various untruths)

2) Father Was A Goat Herder - NOT EXACTLY, he was a privileged, well educated youth, who went on to work with the Kenyan Government.

3) Father Was A Proud Freedom Fighter - NOT EXACTLY, he was part of one of the most corrupt and violent governments Kenya has ever had.

4) My Family Has Strong Ties To African Freedom - NOT EXACTLY, your cousin Raila Odinga has created mass violence in attempting to overturn a legitimate election in 2007, in Kenya. It is the first widespread violence in decades. The current government is pro-American but Odinga wants to overthrow it and establish Muslim Sharia law. Your half-brother, Abongo Obama, is Odinga's follower. You interrupted your New Hampshire campaigning to speak to Odinga on the phone. Obama's cousin Odinga in Kenya ran for president and tried to get Sharia muslim law in place there. When Odinga lost the elections, his followers have burned Christians' homes and then burned men, women and children alive in a Christian church where they took shelter.. Obama SUPPORTED his cousin before the election process here started. Google Obama and Odinga and see what you get.

5) My Grandmother Has Always Been A Christian - NOT EXACTLY, she does her daily Salat prayers at 5am according to her own interviews. Not to mention, Christianity wouldn't allow her to have been one of 14 wives to 1 man.

6) My Name is African Swahili - NOT EXACTLY, your name is Arabic and 'Baraka' (from which Barack came) means 'blessed' in that language. Hussein is also Arabic and so is Obama.

Barack Hussein Obama is not half black. If elected, he would be the first Arab-American President, not the first black President. Barack Hussein Obama is 50% Caucasian from his mother's side and 43.75% Arabic and 6.25% African Negro from his father's side. While Barack Hussein Obama's father was from Kenya, his father's family was mainly Arabs.. Barack Hussein Obama's father was only 12.5% African Negro and 87.5% Arab (his father's birth certificate even states he's Arab, not African Negro).

7) I Never Practiced Islam - NOT EXACTLY, you practiced it daily at school, where you were registered as a Muslim and kept that faith for 31 years, until your wife made you change, so you could run for office.

theres more...later...

So, we vote for McCain then?

You do know it always comes back to that, right?

So, why bother with this shit? None of it even comes close to matching McCain's negatives.

Broadway, you getting your talking points from the KKK? You can’t refute the issues at hand but rather speak of nonsensical blather that would make David Duke salivate. For a person who enjoys quoting the Bible and pontificating as if he were on God’s speed dial, do yourself a favor and find material that merits substantive discussion. You look like a small minded, religious bigot and racist. This is exactly why I find people who wear the label of evangelical Christian so contemptible. They bleed bigot.

Broadway, you're a fucking bigot not worthy of discussion here. Take a hike!

Broadway, you are lying. Repeating memes does not make them true. What research led you to these conclusions? Or is this just cut and paste drivel?

Why any of us bother to engage a small mind is a mystery.

To be somewhat fair to Broadway (I know him personally), I believe him to be very sincere in his belief. Just as I believe Bush is sincere about his faith.

However I do personally draw the line at "bumper sticker theology" as I have mentioned in another thread. Simply stated, life is black and white. There is only right and wrong. God how I wish life were that simple.

M. Scott Peck the writer of "The Road Less Traveled" starts out his book with "Life is difficult." What a true and honest statement.

Old school Conservative Evangelicals like Broadway have been hearing the black and white talking points all their lives. It's ingrained. So anything outside of that line is scary. Damn scary. To hell scary.

I know this because I married a woman who was raised in a church that used this kind of theology to control women in particular and hold the purse strings of others.

You can only posses what you experience. (quoting musician Charlie Peacock).

As much as I disagree with Broadway I can cut him some slack. He is only repeating what he has heard a majority of his life.

You must be on the right track, Broadway.

Anyone who brings out such a clear leftist onslaught must be onto something.

Don't let the bolsheviks get you down. We're known not only by who our friends are, but also by our enemies.

'Tis a badge of honour for such goonish behaviour to come at anyone. I've got your back, big guy.

Viva la Broadway!

Herb

Chris_taylor, I very much appreciate your comments. I hate to come down so hard on a guy, but my goodness, I don't get it. I find it frustrating to read someone who quotes the Bible at nearly every turn but spews such visceral hatred. It makes no sense. Thank God I wasn't not raised evangelical Christian or my life might be a hellacious nightmare.

I can appreciate the fact that Broadway has spent most of his time under the rock of the Second book of Samuel. I understand why he insists that the gospel truth belongs to the vermin under that rock of salvation alone. Maggots, millipedes and rats might know a few things about living under a rock and they might even be friendly to other critters under the rock. Knowing nothing else could make it seem like the greatest place ever. They feel like the "chosen" to be so lucky to have such a fine rock above their heads, but they know little of the world.

I can appreciate the fact that his church and many others worship a God of great prejudice and hatred. To call himself a Christian when those base attitudes are clearly not Christ-like is blasphemy, but justified by his narrow context. Unfortunately for Broadway, the second coming is not a tunnel project led by a mole of salvation. Somewhere, in the broad blue sky above that celebrated rock is the truth. If Broadway crawled out from under his granite roof, took a deep breath and felt the freedom of the wind, he might begin to get it.

Nobody can claim that there is "my God" or "your God" or a "true God" or a "false God" when there is simply God. If what one worships, or espouses, or celebrates is not love, but control, then it is not God. A universal, timeless, transcendent and multi-cultural spirit cannot be hemmed in by narrow definitions by even narrower minds. I say again, as I did in the other thread, God is love without an asterisk.

>>Viva la Broadway!

Herb, my mom and my grandson love you!

>>spews such visceral hatred

Good grief...I think, talk, live a Christ follower everyday and this is the only forum/life communication/community that I get accused of such statements. Actually my heart grieves/is sadden because all I am really trying to convey on these boards here is that with Christ in your life...it's the only way to live here and to eternity...trying not to be visceral in spirit...no hate...my take on God and His Word.

"Good grief...I think, talk, live a Christ follower everyday and this is the only forum/life communication/community that I get accused of such statements."

Looks like the citizens of PDXradio reflects the actual world we live in, not the one as seen from your eyes. Take the blinders (or the Bible-Rose colored glasses) off sometime and you'll find that many of us live quite well with God and the Bible quite low on our priority list, if at all.

Dan/Broadway-

I have been on this side of the board longer than you have. I didn't share my faith until I felt it needed to be expressed. It started when I began to read Herb's posts. I wanted to share from another Christian perspective that wasn't being represented.

I have never told anyone here, "they need God or Jesus." I just say, " I need God and Jesus and that combination has deeply affected my life."

Not everyone is comfortable with God being brought up and I want to respectful of that. I just share what is going on in my life and never ever tell anyone else you have to live my way.

First and foremost I feel you need to establish a relationship with people, either in person or on a message board. Likewise in our neighborhood there are people who have little or no church background.

My wife is apart of a women's neighborhood book club. They meet once a month at different houses each month. Talk about a rainbow of belief and value systems. And talk about the variety of books they read. It truly represents the diversity within these wonderful women.

The group even has a Lutheran pastor who lives two doors down. She is also my running partner twice a week. We have some wonderful theological discussions that enrich my life.

However you and Herb feel the need to answer questions no one is asking. If there’s one thing Jesus did he met people where they were at, not where he wanted them to be. That is my advice to you.

I have come to enjoy all the different experiences from people on this board. Some I have very little in common with but have deep respect for. Especially the ones who don't believe there is a God. They challenge me to stay "real" and hopefully I have gained some kind of respect by just accepting them for who they are.

This is where you and Herb and I are very different, yet we are all Christians. No wonder we may look like crazy people to non-believers.

To be honest Dan you're trying too hard. And I know you mean well I really believe you think you're doing God's will. But to be honest again.... you’re really messing it up.

Herb likes to wear this stuff like a badge of honor. Jesus was never into ego trips like that and neither should either of you.

SHAME ON BROADWAY! I am shocked that someone of even moderate intelligence buys this junk! What kind of "Christian" spreads this without blinking an eye or even wondering, let alone checking, to see if it's true!

You really need to check your facts rather than perpetuate lies and manipulated half-truths:

1) "Selma Got Me Born" - NOT EXACTLY...

For some reason, I can't copy & paste on Snopes, so the actual longer facts are in the link, the short answers are mine. This question has a very long expanation as to his statement and intent.

Here are the long answers to all of BW's cut/paste job, there are actually 50 "not exactly's":

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp

2) Father Was A Goat Herder - NOT EXACTLY, he was a privileged, well educated youth, who went on to work with the Kenyan Government.

Actually, he was both

3) Father Was A Proud Freedom Fighter - NOT EXACTLY,

Obama Has NEVER stated that about his Father

4) My Family Has Strong Ties To African Freedom - NOT EXACTLY, your cousin Raila Odinga...

Raila Odinga is NOT his cousin or any other relation, I didn't check the half-brother stuff...

5) My Grandmother Has Always Been A Christian - NOT EXACTLY,

Wow! Here's a shocker: Obama has TWO grandmothers! Amazing!

6) My Name is African Swahili - NOT EXACTLY,

"the author seems to be unaware that many Swahili words and names are of Arabic origin (just as many English words originated with other languages) "Barack" is a Swahili name that entered the language via historical trade and cultural ties with Arabia"

Barack Hussein Obama is not half black. If elected, he would be the first Arab-American President, not the first black President. Barack Hussein Obama is 50% Caucasian from his mother's side and 43.75% Arabic and 6.25% African Negro from his father's side. While Barack Hussein Obama's father was from Kenya, his father's family was mainly Arabs.. Barack Hussein Obama's father was only 12.5% African Negro and 87.5% Arab (his father's birth certificate even states he's Arab, not African Negro).

I didn't bother dispelling this one because it's just so damn DUMB. And irrelevant.

7) I Never Practiced Islam - NOT EXACTLY,

False, well true actually, since he NEVER has...This one just won't die, will it?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

"Good grief...I think, talk, live a Christ follower everyday"

IF THAT WERE TRUE, YOU NEVER WOULD HAVE POSTED/PASTED THAT GARBAGE CAN FULL OF HATEFUL ANTI-OBAMA LIES ABOVE.

You need to take a good long look in the mirror.

I think he needs to stop looking in the mirror.

Merkin - Thank you for taking the time to find that. Knowing the truth matters to me more than others and I won't forget that one.

Big kudos Mrs. Merkin!

Thank you Chris for your sense of fairness, your thoughtfulness and personal perspective.

CJ I am glad that truth means that much to you. BTW you have been spot on in many of your recent posts. Thank you for being the dude you are.

Merkin-I could kiss you. However that may mess up both our marriages.

Littlesongs- you know how much I totally dig the research you find. You simply rock. And I still believe you would be an outstanding pastor in the best of terms.

(Returning the harmless european-both-cheeks-air-kiss)

Love you guys!

I had already rec'd that hateful Obama list via email. It is just so ridiculous.

Somebody (read "coward") spent a LOT of time putting it together, yet of course didn't/won't sign their name on it. The last part, regarding the percentages of his ancestry is new to me.

That "somebody" is obviously scared out of their mind. And, well, maybe they should be.

Glad to see others in the religious community are standing up to Dobson.

---------

The Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell, a Methodist pastor from Texas and longtime supporter of President Bush who has endorsed Obama, said Tuesday he belongs to a group of religious leaders who, working independently of Obama's campaign, launched a Web site to counter Dobson at http://www.jamesdobsondoesntspeakforme.com. The site highlights statements from Obama and Dobson and asks visitors to compare them.

Caldwell said he has great respect for Dobson's advocacy for families, but said the criticism of Obama was "a bit over the top" and "crossed the line."

"There has been a call for a higher level of politics and politicking," Caldwell said. "So to attack at this level is inappropriate and I think unacceptable and we at least want to hold everybody accountable."

Tom Minnery, a senior vice president at Focus on the Family, responded: "Without question, Dr. Dobson is speaking for millions of evangelicals because his understanding of the Bible is thoroughly evangelical."

From the web site:

Dr. James Dobson recently attacked Barack Obama for a 2006 speech that Obama gave on his Christian faith. Does he speak for you?

James Dobson doesn't speak for me.

He doesn't speak for me when he uses religion as a wedge to divide;

He doesn't speak for me when he speaks as the final arbiter on the meaning of the Bible;

James Dobson doesn't speak for me when he uses the beliefs of others as a line of attack;

He doesn't speak for me when he denigrates his neighbor's views when they don't line up with his;

He doesn't speak for me when he seeks to confine the values of my faith to two or three issues alone;

What does speak for me is David's psalm celebrating how good and pleasant it is when we come together in unity;

Micah speaks for me in reminding us that the Lord requires us to act justly, to love mercy and to walk humbly with Him;

The prophet Isaiah speaks for me in his call for all to come and reason together and also to seek justice, encourage the oppressed and to defend the cause of the vulnerable;

The book of Nehemiah speaks for me in its example to work with our neighbors, not against them, to restore what was broken in our communities;

The book of Matthew speaks for me in saying to bless those that curse you and pray for those who persecute you;

The words of the apostle Paul speak for me in saying that words spoken and deeds done without love amount to nothing.

The apostle John speaks for me in reminding us of Jesus' command to love one another. The world will know His disciples by that love.

"The Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell, a Methodist pastor from Texas and longtime supporter of President Bush who has endorsed Obama, said Tuesday he belongs to a group of religious leaders who, working independently of Obama's campaign, launched a Web site to counter Dobson at http://www.jamesdobsondoesntspeakforme.com. The site highlights statements from Obama and Dobson and asks visitors to compare them.

Caldwell said he has great respect for Dobson's advocacy for families, but said the criticism of Obama was "a bit over the top" and "crossed the line."

"There has been a call for a higher level of politics and politicking," Caldwell said. "So to attack at this level is inappropriate and I think unacceptable and we at least want to hold everybody accountable."

Tom Minnery, a senior vice president at Focus on the Family, responded: "Without question, Dr. Dobson is speaking for millions of evangelicals because his understanding of the Bible is thoroughly evangelical."

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h7WRKRrzc1zMGsLxksH7XSatfdbgD91GP5S81

OK, that's too funny! Or just plain weird!

Jinx! You owe me a coke!

Ah man Merkin we were all over this. High fives guuurrl friend!!

Nicely done you guys.

What really bothers me is the re-publishing of the lies, over and over, just to do what exactly?

Seems to me, getting your way or law, through lies, isn't exactly taking the higher ground, is it?

Somebody explain to me how God's work can be done through lies.

Please.

" CJ I am glad that truth means that much to you."

Well, just to be clear, I know I can be wrong a lot too. It does help to know that I'm not alone in at least wanting to know the truth - even when I choose to flatly ignore it out of pride or whatever. I mean, come on, when I saw that list posted from Broadway, I really thought about whether or not any of it would bother me if it was true. Any of it. I couldn't think of anything that would possibly think less of him ( Obama ) other than " Well, is he just lying to us? " ( Which is what many of the posts always imply, but never say ).

But no. Obama is not lying to us. It doesn't mean that I think he's perfect or without flaw. I just believe that he will try and do things in a manner that I respond to. Others don't. And when they have to resort to lies to try and convince me that Obama is something to be worried about - well - it's been proven wrong time and time again around there that it's not Obama that is lying.

It's someone else and they are being believed by others.

So here's my pledge;

If Obama wins, I am outta here. I want to change the world. Not own it or rule it or sell it. MLK had a dream, Obama's got a gift, I want to be a part of the solution; remiain inspired to come up with my own plan and fix it.

And honey, I've got a plan. I'll announce my candidacy right here,

Chickenjuggler in 2016. My platform will be simple; Ask good questions, cover all your bases, work hard, remain at peace - and above all - remember that you are a leader of people who want to follow you. Don't squander it. Compromise. Be smart. Admit when you are wrong. Trust in the fact that you are not the smartest person in all, if any, situations. Never lie. No misdirection of information. No spokespersons or speechwriters to blame shit on. Give your own press conferences. Keep it simple. Write your own speeches. Make them detailed and forthcoming. Just be part of the TEAM that is life. Be accountable. Holster your weapon. You can keep it...holstered. Let those that believe in God continue to exercise their faith in the places that are built to do exactly that. My faith is different than yours. You deal with that and I will deal with the fact that yours is different than mine.

I will not care from where you came, or what you did. You are here now. What is it that you REALLY want to do with your life? How can I help you accomplish that? Do you need some money to help you get started? Fine. Have some. I bet I can find some for you. Or help YOU find some.

I want you to figure out what would make you happy beginning today. I really do.

Vote CJ in 2016. " He wants to make you the happiest you've ever been."

Vote CJ in 2016. " You are an adult now. Adults help each other."

Vote CJ in 2016. " He's planning to have an inspired dream of giving gifts. Thank you Ambien!"

Vote CJ in 2016. " Why buy a mattress anywhere else? "

Vote CJ in 2012. " Put a live chicken in your underwear. Be oblong and have your knees removed."

Now seriously, who wouldn't want that in a mortgage broker?

Pastor Kirbyjon Caldwell has created a web site that compares Dobson's claims about Obama vs. Obama's own words.

http://www.jamesdobsondoesntspeakforme.com/

I did not sign the form, mostly because there was no indication what they intended to with it if I did..

...and they lie, so it really doesn't matter, if you did!

The good entertainment lies in a form where people actually admit he does speak for them!

Romans 8 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus

Hammered with the words of man...hammered with the words of God...sticking to the latter.

Good grief...anyone now days can get a web site to confirm their bent in life...I consider most of them I read here disturbing...the facts that Snopes rebuted in my most recent post were not convincing.

Hey Mrs M...how do you do the color thing? Gotta know...

GOD gave him sight and he still can't see!

It's a secret, we could tell you then we'd have to kill you!

X	O	X
O	X
O		X

No problem with a little spiritual in-sight here!

Watch out kids...full graphics/pictures coming to a pdxradio post near you!

Well, only if you make them with the text formatting options.

Images and other goodies are not turned on here.

(and that's a really, really good thing!)

Agreed!

And Broadway, for someone like you to just assume the worst in people and that someone would do that does not represent you very well. Last I knew it was not your job to sit in judgement. Whatever happened to having faith in your fellow man? I may joke and kid around a lot but there are lines that I just won't cross.

>>not your job to sit in judgement

Nope...just trying to speak truth, right choices, and a little scripture thrown in. There is more to this life than living and then death.

>>Broadway, you're a fxxxing bigot not worthy of discussion here. Take a hike!

so much for judgements and assuming the worst in people

A voice in the wilderness here. God is calling you to be His is my prayer.

"just trying to speak truth..."

No, you are not.

You are a flaming hypocrite and are guilty of perpetuating lies. Shame on you.

If I were you, I would make amends for posting the above flat-out lies. Do you even know what "Snopes" is? Did you even read the link, or check the actual facts?

I'd also like to see you voluntarily go away from here, with your tail between your legs, just like Okie did.

'You are a flaming hypocrite and are guilty of perpetuating lies. Shame on you.'

How judgmental & intolerant.

Herb

Hey M, it ever strike you as odd that right after Okie left Broadway starts posting? I know it's just a coincidence but weird though. It's like there must be a troll alert system that when one falls another in the network will step up to replace him/her.

>>like to see you voluntarily go away from here, with your tail between your legs, just like Okie did.

Hey Okie...don't know you but your welcome back by me like all the opinions here on pdxradio...oh...except for mine and maybe Herb.
Guess some here cannot be tolerant of my "perpetuating lies".
Most of what you say about me I have the same response about you without the profanities...interesting...

Who you talking to in regards to the profanity?

I was wondering the same thing.

from Talpdx and Vitalogy and the Mrs spouts a little to which I expect a higher standard from the ladies...and I don't take it as joking around...far from it...actuallly if that's your heart...say it...your just sharing what's inside it.

You want it from the heart, OK. You are over the top in here man. Lighten up a little bit and quit trying to read between the lines on everything. I enjoy reading Chris's post's, I don't enjoy reading yours and often skip over them completely. Not everyone in here is cold hearted and the sinners you think and if you just back off a bit you will see it.

---

quote:

Most of what you say about me I have the same response about you without the profanities

---

'You are over the top in here man.'

I'd love to see how long all you democrats would last on a conservative board.

It's telling that you don't have the guts to consistently post your tripe there.

Herb

How do you know we don't post on conservative boards? That's a pretty pretentious statement Herb.

I don't have tripe. I live my life according to my own personal beliefs and don't need to broadcast that or defend it to anyone. You are free not to like what I post here as I am free not to like what others post. But just don't get offended when you try to shove your beliefs down my throat cause I ain't gonna take it.

I don't care which forum, they are all the same. For every opinion there is always an equal or opposite opinion and to get offended by any of it on the internet is just plain crazy.

I fear I would not last long on a conservative board and I would probably get censored and/or banned for expressing my opinions there.

I tried this, wanting to prove out a few things.

Got booted, and was nice too. Left them NO outs on form.

Check out Freerepublic too. viewers, contributors all way down. They've been doing a lot of booting.

Profanity is the only only deserving response when somone posts such utter bullshit. If you want to be addressed like an adult, then act like one.

I'm not huge into political rantings and I like the group in here, most anyway. I have even learned to tolerate Herb. You just gotta know when to bail on a thread once the hot buttons are pushed.

I'd like to say thanks to Littlesongs for posting the link to the New Yorker article, "The Fall of Conservatism" (post is dated Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 2:09 pm). It took me a while to get through the article, but it was worth it. This is a very detailed, thought-provoking analysis of the contemporary direction of the Republican Party. One of the somewhat obvious conclusions is that to win elections, parties and candidates have to address issues that are relevant to the current political landscape. Theoretical and "dogmatic" talking points can't be used over and over and over again with continued success (Libertarians should take not of this, in my opinion).

Some parts of the article left me wondering, is a transition to "social democracy" inevitable?

'I have even learned to tolerate Herb.'

Thanks.

Depending on the issue, acceptance is not a given, but tolerance is something entirely different.

And to the liberals in the audience, how accepting, not tolerant, are you truly to causes with which you disagree?

Ever take a pro-lifer to lunch? That kind of thing.

That having been said, sometimes I'm more successful myself than other times.

Herb

Herb, you are kind of like pain killers to Rush. The longer you are exposed, the more you take, the lesser the effect they have on you.

Have a Good One!

"How do you know we don't post on conservative boards?"

Fine, Chris. So at which conservative boards do you consistently post?

Herb

You're welcome Alfredo. Once we understand that this political struggle is an ideological battle of the Boomers, it makes it easier to go forward. One of the statements that drew me to the Obama candidacy was this interview with Andrew Sullivan of the Atlantic last December. Here is an excerpt:

"The battles between Gingrich and Clinton were battles that took place in dorm rooms between young Republicans and young Democrats 20, 30 years ago. And that's part of what we have to transcend. We're re-litigating sex, drugs, rock-and-roll, Vietnam. And that's part of why I think it's so important to use this election to finally settle some of those arguments."

Atlantic

Our nation is long overdue for a change. Not all of it will be easy, or pleasant, but we will feel much better afterwards. Like that last good vomit when you have the stomach flu. It is pure misery for a few moments, but it feels almost post-coital after you finish.

" I'd love to see how long all you democrats would last on a conservative board. "

I'll accept that challenge.

Name any board you think I need to be set straight by, Mr Macho tough guy with a Joan of Arc complex.

Let's see how long I last before what, exactly? Let's see how long I last before I get kicked off? Or before I quit?

'...name any board you think I need to be set straight by, Mr Macho tough guy with a Joan of Arc complex.'

Mr. Macho tough guy?
Joan of Arc complex?

Try to psychoanalyze all you want. When challenged, I simply believe most on this board don't have it in them to constantly defend their meagre liberal positions.

I didn't have a specific board in mind, either. But it should have an equally strident chorus with a similar reverse ratio of conservatives to liberals.

Leftists think they're so smart, until they're challenged.

I go back to Mr. Gore and Mr. Kerry, who thought themselves so smart.

Both got beat by a guy they called simple. It's too funny.

Herb

So how big is your ego Mr. Herb? Pride is an awful sin. Legalism equally sinful. You just hit the jackppot with your last post.

CJ in the henhouse, this oughta be good. Be sure to let us in on the forum so we can all watch the hilarity that will be sure to insue!

C'mon Herb, name a forum.

The worst bad idea from the 1960's?

The 1960's. Except for The moon program. Except for The Beatles/Rolling Stones/Kinks. Except for Bobby Kennedy. Except for the summer road trip my grandparents took me with to Yellowstone. Except for "Hot Wheels" "Shake-a-pudding", "Six Fingers", GI Joe, Schwinn Sting-Ray bikes, "Fantastic Voyage", "Vacuform", "Incredible Edibles", Wrist Rockets, The '69 METS, The '68 Tigers, The '68 snowstorm.

That's about it. Everything else about the 1960's sucked.

"Incredible Edibles"

I sometimes wonder if those things I ate 40 years ago are a ticking timebomb waiting to go off with some heineous disease.

'So how big is your ego Mr. Herb?'

Probably big.

Herb

Everything sucked? Even 91-wonderful KISN sucked?

Seriously, though, I sometimes feel like I am witnessing the dorm room partisan political debates of 15 years ago, when I was in college. I had one friend who was a "Ditto-head" and another who was a hard-core Democrat. It was fun to watch them get into it:
"Rush Limbaugh is a social Darwinist. Let the poor get poorer while the rich turn a profit."

"Aww geez! He's just an entertainer."

A lot of the time, the dorm room "debates" had much better decorum than what is seen here.

I don't know about Baby Boomers, but it seems that much of Gen-X was never exposed to debate clubs or classes on speaking and debate in school. This is a real pity because it means that now there is at least one generation in our society that never learned how to effectively present and defend ideas. From what I have read, people in the Gen-Y demographic are even worse!

'Pride is an awful sin. Legalism equally sinful.'

Agreed.

But as long as you're ranking sin, I still say staying silent whilst little ones are slaughtered is right up there.

Herb

"From what I have read, people in the Gen-Y demographic are even worse!"

hOw CoUlD yOu PoSsIbLy ThInK dA kIdZ aInT wIdDiT?

Back in high school, I "lettered" in Forensics and went to the state tournament in Albany. I agree, the emphasis on critical thought, research and understanding multiple points of view has been squelched for a time. A society that does not want debate will not teach or encourage it. In that sense, it is rather chilling.

The 1960s were a watershed time for almost every aspect of American life. Some of it was horrific, and some of it was astounding. I would add the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 to the list of things that did not suck. Motown too. Oh, and my parents getting married with nuptials that resulted in little ol' me.

>>if I thought you a pompous windbag would you think the same of me? Boy, forgiveness and turning the other cheek right out the window

It's all about your world view on politics and religion here. I did'nt mean to sin against you.

>>Name any board you think

Interestingly I don't blog anywhere else but try this one

http://www.townhall.com/youropinion/

lots of conservative bloggers there...

Okie-dokie, but if CJ is taking the challenge, you ought to branch out as well. This experiment is a two way street my good man. Once Chickenjuggler has settled in among the intolerant, you need to spend an equal amount of time here to make it fair: Street Prophets.

As far as I know, nobody from PDX Radio is a poster at the site, so you will not be wandering into any sort of personal trap.

"This experiment is a two way street my good man."

Wait a minute.

IF leftists take up the challenge, only then will it be fair.

It's been a ONE WAY STREET favouring leftists for a long, long time.

Herb

Just name a board, Herb.

And how long I last will be defined as " Before I quit? " or " Before I get kicked off? "

And my inability to stay will say what, exactly? About me or them?

Because Conservative message boards, what, don't tolerate dissent?

I know you like to play victim, persecuted, etc. all the time, but what is it that you have experienced here that speaks to whatever point you are trying to make? Being shown how you are wrong? Hypocritical? What?

'...what is it that you have experienced here that speaks to whatever point you are trying to make..'

Oh no, you don't.

Those constantly playing the victim card are liberals.

And the left specialises in dishing it out, especially whilst in packs. But few can take a punch, figuratively speaking. And even fewer have the mental firepower to seriously address the inherent flaws in their world view.

Whilst liberals mindlessly pile on against those with whom they disagree, replete with gratuituous obscenities, it only makes them look pathetically weak.

Herb

But it's alright for Herb to insinuate that leftists are child molesters. Good old Herb, always speaking out both sides of his mouth. With a Bible in one hand and a flame thrower in the other. All in the spirit of good old, evangelical Christian fun.

Yeah. You keep saying that. And yet that's not what I asked. Not even close.

Are you going to name a board or not?

And how long I last will be defined as " Before I quit? " or " Before I get kicked off? "

And my inability to stay will say what, exactly? About me or them?

Because Conservative message boards, what, don't tolerate dissent?

What is it that you have experienced here that speaks to whatever point you are trying to make? Being shown how you are wrong? Hypocritical? What?

Face it. I'm calling your bluff and now you'd like it if you could talk about me in some general way that doesn't apply. If it did, you could answer any one of my questions.

Spot on CJ!

Herb-o-bore has been very busy editing some of his above posts, I see.

Conservative boards do not tolerate dissent. I've not ever found one where there is not either excessive moderation, or kicking going on. The Hannity forums are not bad --one of the best.

Same applies to many liberal boards too. Thom Hartman's forum is not bad in this respect, to give an example from the other side.

Some good discussion, more in the spirit of what we do here, can be had in niche special interest forums, where some politics and religion is allowed. It's spotty, hard to find, and often hard to get in and get known enough to really participate.

This forum is likely one of the very best for that. It's got a low barrier to entry, compared to a lot of others.

Moderation, kicking people, etc... happens regularly.

This place is fairly rare and special, in that regard. (thanks Dan) The very conservative moderation done here, leaves us open to get along, or leave on our own terms.

Frankly, that's why I spend time here.

We've had this conversation before. I specifically signed up on some conservative boards and got the boot. Denied them all the easy outs too. Kept posts simple, was polite, you name it.

Some things I learned on that whole deal:

1. The number of opponents online does not matter. We all have time to consider our thoughts and post accordingly.

2. The dodge list applies pretty much everywhere. When you see somebody doing it, it's pretty easy to just move on and engage the others, or simply repeat your point and see what happens.

3. Most online communities have alphas that for whatever reason help define the place. These change over time as people come and go.

Here, the alphas value open, real conversations and don't mind minor violations, or pushing matters of form. They also value everybody and are interested in the entertainment and sometimes enlightenment that comes from pushing on one another hard to see what we really think.

And I'm one of those, and it's not a pride thing, but simply a statement of fact. Another statement of fact is that I have been joined by others, who feel the same way, and arrived here because of others, who felt the same way. This is special and should not be ignored, nor taken lightly.

It just does not happen all that often. Why and how it happens is one of those things I've given considerable thought to as I would love to see more of it around the net, not less.

IMHO Herb, your challenge is an empty one, partly based on the above realizations / observations, and partly because it's a fallacy, proven time and time again here empirically and tracked on the dodge list.

If I were wrong on this, the claim to be outnumbered would have fallen off the list through reasoned discussion demonstrating that to be the case.

That has not happened here, nor elsewhere that I can see, and I believe I'm pretty solid on my judgement of these matters. Been around the net a really long time and have watched this all come into play. Lessons learned through simple experience and a few hard questions over time.

To be completely fair, you can take one hell of a beating Herb. You are a stud, complete with a big, brass pair. Kudos! I like you for that, even if you do piss me off quite regularly.

Now, nut up and deal straight with CJ. The both of you can clearly take it, and I frankly, would enjoy reading the exchange.

At some point, you are going to have to go the absolute distance, just as others have. That means doing the work, prepping up, thinking it over long and hard, staying off the dodge list and just pushing hard to learn something.

If you do this, something will be learned, win, lose or draw. That's where the gold is. CJ, to his credit, has unabashedly done this repeatedly, leaving him with just as big of a pair as you sport.

Get to it, and let's all see where it goes!

>>good old, evangelical Christian fun

All of you can join in on the fun too! The warm waters of joy/an abundant life here and life everlasting feels great! No matter whats going on in your life, Christ is there for you...waiting, ready for you to accept Him into your life. Just ask Him...listen to His "still small voice"...His love is always there for you.

>>With a Bible in one hand and a flame thrower in the other

Herb just wants you to catch that fire!

'But it's alright for Herb to insinuate that leftists are child molesters.'

Hardly.

But when the aclu, a revered leftist bastion supports nambla, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?

Blame your fellow travelers in the democrat party.

Don't want the stigma? Then stop helping child molesters in their attempts to normalise their evil behaviour.

Herb

"Then stop helping child molesters in their attempts to normalise their evil behaviour."

Clean up the mess in our own backyard before you worry about others. Churches across the country are filled with child molestors who are protected by the church. Talk about a pathetic example of utter hypocrisy.

Wrong again.

It would be hypocrisy if I gave the romanist church a pass, but I don't carry water for the pope.

nambla or priests, they should all be treated the same.

That's unlike HYPOCRITICAL leftists, who want their aclu-sponsored paedophiles to go free, whilst jailing priests.

They should ALL be jailed...or worse.

Herb

It's not just priests. Boy Scout leaders, bible study leaders, the list is ongoing. There's no end to the amount of sickos that are involved in religious organizations. They join up to prey on the weak, and since they are surrounded by the weak, it's easy game.

Those that speak out the most about such subjects are usually the ones enabling the crimes, all whilst claiming to be godly and holy. Sickos!!

>>Churches across the country are filled with child molestors who are protected by the church.

theres a few bad Priests and a couple bad misguided churches out there and thats all there is that is abusing any children in America.
Good grief, pornography is the most guilty of causing child/human abuse world-wide!!!...oh...did I mention being the wife of a Muslim man?

'Those that speak out the most about such subjects are usually the ones enabling the crimes, all whilst claiming to be godly and holy.'

The difference between you and me is that you're hypocritically railing against paedophiles with whom you disagree.

And the last time I checked, there are many, many convictions of molesters who have no religious affiliation.

So rather than address the aclu's DEFENSE of paedophilia and changing the age of consent laws, you ham-fistedly play the religious bigot card.

I'm consistent. Jail them all.

Herb

Muslim, Christians, same shit different book. All religions use religion as a tool to abuse, control, and manipulate people. You're a good example.

You are consistent, Herb. You are a religious bigot. You repeatedly paint yourself as such -- and you don't even bother to try to hide it. A pitch of John Birch, with a smidge of Herbert W. Armstrong and a dash of the KKK and we get good old Herb.

'You are a religious bigot.'

And you, my fine liberal friend, have all the markings of an anti-religious bigot.

Herb

And we all.... INCLUDING YOURS TRULY MORE THAN ANYONE...should stop shooting arrows.

Herb and Dan. It is very clear where you stand. I say continue to stand.

Let the others who disagree with you hold their stance.

Okay. So now we have fence dividing us. Not a bad thing is many cases. But let's keep it at a fence and work hard not to build a wall.

My suggestion: and Lord knows I rarely give these but I'm gonna try.... my suggestion is, walk in the other person's shoes.

Vitalogy I don't know why you don't believe in God that is not my business. However as hard as it might be, put on Herb's coat.

And likewise Herb, do the same. We only know so much about you Herb, but somewhere in your life you chose to believe in God. Was there ever a time you didn't? If so, put yourself there in Vitalogy's shoes.

I believe you really don't get to know someone until you walk beside him or her.

Maybe I'm being unrealistic and asking for too much. Maybe we really like lobbing insults and insinuation. I grow weary of it. I don't mind intelligent discussion of ones opinions but nobody is getting anywhere in this thread.

"Barack Hussein Obama is not half black. If elected, he would be the first Arab-American President, not the first black President. Barack Hussein Obama is 50% Caucasian from his mother's side and 43.75% Arabic and 6.25% African Negro from his father's side. While Barack Hussein Obama's father was from Kenya, his father's family was mainly Arabs.. Barack Hussein Obama's father was only 12.5% African Negro and 87.5% Arab (his father's birth certificate even states he's Arab, not African Negro)."


So, is this true or untrue? Anyone have any reliable links one way or the other?

'...walk in the other person's shoes.'

I like it.

Besides, it shouldn't be an unreasonable challenge for Christians to do so, since many are former atheists, doubters or agnostics. This includes such luminaries as C.S. Lewis & Lee Strobel.

It's also the charitably Christian thing to do.
You're right, Chris. St. Paul met people where they were.

Herb

Why does it matter?

Glad you're taking the challenge Herb. I will join you.

'Why does it matter?'

Are you speaking as a nihilist or a fatalist?

Herb

You couldn't have said that better yourself.

I was asking Deane why it matters what Obama's Heritage percentage is.

Sorry, Amus.

My mistake.

Carry on.

Herb

First, define black. The vast majority of the black/african-american people in the US would come in well below "100% african heritage" on a DNA test, not the least because the raping of female slaves by slaveholders was de rigeuer back in the "good ol' days".

Second, judging by the accuracy of the rest of the claims in the group, we should be able to safely disregard this one as well.

Third, what difference does it make, and who gives a damn what his ethic heritage is? As far as the depth of the common man goes, he "looks black" and that's all that matters.

Hey Herb, What does an agnostic, dyslexic, insomniac lay up all night worrying about?


Whether or not there is a "DOG".

DT....That's one of my favorites.

Anything that annoys liberals is of interest to me.

OK then, you're right.
Bigots do annoy Liberals.
But we all know who ebraces them.

Deane theres a strong possibility you're going to be one annoyed man for several years to come if Obama wins the White House and the Dems gain control in both houses.

WHEN...not IF.

Dana Carvey's Grumpy Old Man comes to mind.

"Back in my day Negros shined your shoes, and Arabs sold rugs. That's the way it was, and we LIKED IT!"

Wayne's World...Wayne's World...Wayne's World!

"Deane theres a strong possibility you're going to be one annoyed man for several years to come if Obama wins the White House and the Dems gain control in both houses."


What a radical liberal/socialist government will do to the United States after 200 years of progress is far more than just annoying.

Hi Deane. How's it goin'?

LOL!!!

Deane you are certainly a funny man I will give you that. The fact you put the past 7 and half years under Bush as being progressive is possibly one of your best lines.

When it comes to holding evangelicals in contempt, I plead guilty as charged.

I heard that Obama is part Seahorse. And anyone who knows me knows how much I hate Seahorses.

All hermaphroditish and father raising the children - grrrr - they make me so mad.

And don't get me started on McCain being 72% UNICORN!

I heard, and get this....

Obama has fathered two black children.

Gasp!!

It’ll be a progressive Democrat like Barack Obama to clean up the gross dereliction of leadership that defines the administration of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Once the dust is settled, it’ll be clear that history will look down on George W. Bush as the DUMBEST man ever to hold the office of President – with his administration parroting his dumb guy mystique. It's been like having Larry the Cable Guy as president.

As for smart men like Al Gore and John Kerry losing to the idiot George W. Bush in 2000 and 2004 respectively, it’s tragic. But it shows that George W. Bush and the Republican Congress couldn’t do anything right – and the American people know it. And too, Al Gore has proven himself so much more a statesman than George W. Bush could ever dream possible. George W. Bush is as popular as a sex offender, while Al Gore is a true statesman with a Nobel Peace Prize under his belt.

Back on Topic:

"The Vietnam War"

nuff said!

The Theofascism of James Dobson

"Dobson’s statements in his broadcast were nothing short of megalomaniacal: “it is undemocratic to try to pass legislation that I find offensive to the Scripture.” It seems Dobson thinks he alone knows THE “correct” interpretation of scripture and, therefore, he and he alone should decide what legislation is acceptable. Does this sound like the ranting of a theofascist dictator to you?"

http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/content/view/4223/81/

The Atlantic Free Press is a total left wing smear web site so you know their going to attack anything right.

But that doesn't mean they're wrong. I find left wing smear websites pretty reliable.

Attacking anything right means what?

We don't consider their information? Said information is false / bad / does not count because it's "attacking anything right"?

What does it mean?

Barry Goldwater.

Richard M. Nixon.

Spiro Agnew.

George Wallace.