Vitalogy, I started this as another thread so as not to hijack that other thread any more than we already have!

From your post; ...and would allow law enforcement to not only match the gun to the crime, but also connect the registered owner of the gun to the crime.

But it wouldn't.

The guns that are used in crimes are for the most part stolen. The thugs are not going to Sportsman's Warehouse or Cabela's and buying their guns.

It's highly unlikely that the guy selling the guns to the gang bangers asks for their ID, much less runs a background check and fills out the required paperwork. It's not us law abiding gun owners that are committing the crimes.

Example: Someone breaks into my house and steals my gun. I report it to the police. Some period of time, that gun is used in a crime.

The registered gun owner has nothing to do with the crime.

How would I having registered that gun help the police solve the crime or find out who used the gun in the crime?

Think about it in terms of a car;

If someone steals your car and then runs over someone with it or is involved in a hit and run or some other criminal activity, how does it help the police to solve the crime knowing the car is registered to you?

Skybill, before we begin debate, I want you to know that I do not support in ANY way making gun ownership illegal. In a perfect world, we would not need guns, but that's not the case. I believe the second amendment is there for a reason, even though I currently have no plans on taking advantage of this right afforded to me and have a personal belief that guns cause more harm than good. This is why I don't celebrate gun ownership or the gun culture as something to be proud of. Guns are a drain on society, but are also a necessary evil.

With that said, in your example about someone breaking into your home and stealing your gun, I think that gun registration would force people to better safeguard their weapons if they bore some responsibility for their gun being used in a crime. A paper trail would undoubtedly allow law enforcement to catch more criminals and those so-called law abiding gun owners who turn into criminals with the pulling of the trigger. I also think it would give law enforcement a cut and dry way to remove guns from those that do not have them registered and prosecute them for unlawful ownership of a weapon. It would also result in the removal of a weapon from the street that could end up somewhere else.

I would also like to see mandatory education for gun owners as well. I had to pass a test to drive my car, drive my boat, notorize public documents, etc, yet I can buy a gun that can kill someone on the spot with zero requirements other than not being a felon. The bar needs to be set higher for gun ownership in my opinion.

I know that you have a fear that registration will lead to confiscation, but I don't think that would happen, and overall, there would be a net benefit of less gun deaths nationwide, which would be the overall goal of such an idea.

A great example of your typical "law abiding" gun owner:

By KGW STAFF

Several people at a Washington campground tell police they had a terrifying experience last Saturday when bullets came flying through their campground from across a lake.

The alleged incident took place at Beaver Bay Campground near Cougar. Sergeant Dennis Pritchard with the Clark County Sheriff’s Office said that about 9:30 in the morning on Saturday, June 14th, several 911 calls came in regarding shots fired at Beaver Bay Campground near Cougar.

A deputy showed up to the popular campground and was greeted by a group of people saying a man had been shooting guns from across the lake all night and that many of the bullets had gone through their campsites.

The Deputy was able to see a man across lake at a separate campsite.

Sergeant Pritchard said the deputy drove over to that campsite and asked if anyone had been shooting guns.

25-year-old Jacob Michael Johnson said he had been shooting guns into the lake but was not aware the bullets were ricocheting off the water.

Johnson was arrested on five counts of misdemeanor reckless endangerment charges. Had a revolver two handguns and an AK-47 assault rifle.

Deputies were not able to find any bullet holes in the campsites and no one was injured.

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread. Darn work!!

Vitalogy, I realize that you don't want to take away anyone’s guns, but there are plenty of people that do. George Soros, Nancy Pelosi, Teddy Kennedy, Mayor Bloomberg just to name a few.

There are many well funded organizations that want to as well. Hand Gun Control, The Brady Campaign and the UN are but a few.

Registering guns won't have any effect on removing guns from the street. The gang bangers don't care a bit about where the gun came from and surely won't register it.

Forced registration and removal of un-registered weapons was tried in Canada beginning in 1995. The cost of it has sky rocketed, there has been severe miss-management and resistance from gun owners has caused the Canadian Government to all but give up on it.

Other countries have tried it too. England and Australia are good examples where certain types of guns have been banned and the remaining ones are heavily regulated to the point of it being almost prohibitive to even own a gun.

It's is also a proven fact that the crime rate has steadily climbed in both of those countries.

England is so restrictive that if someone breaks into your house, even if the thug has a gun, and you defend yourself with a kitchen knife, you will be prosecuted.

As far as your post above, I'd bet you a good steak dinner that there was alcohol involved. (And the guy probably has green teeth, at least those that he still has!) I'm sure he was a hill banger!

The story doesn't mention that he is a "law abiding" gun owner or not.

Whether he was "law abiding" or not he was an idiot. You never shoot at water for the exact reason stated above. Same thing goes for shooting at rocks.

If you don't know what is behind what you are shooting at...don't shoot.

I'm not opposed to a mandatory gun safety course, but it should be like your driver’s license. You take the class, pass a test then are issued a card. You have to show the card when purchasing a firearm, but there should be no limit on what kind of firearm you are buying or registration, other than the already required paperwork that records the gun serial number and make and model along with all the pertinent information on the purchaser. Those records are available to law enforcement personnel now.

One difference between owning a car and a gun is owning the car is not protected and guaranteed by the Constitution.

Here is a short article about registration that cites the for and against crowds. Read the last paragraph. It sums it up pretty well.
http://www.gunregistration.org/

Look up the stats of gun deaths in the US vs Canada, Australia, or England. The US has a gun problem and something needs to change because status quo is not working.

The guy at the lake is your typical gun owner who would claim the same as you that they are law abiding. It doesn't matter if alcohol was involved or not, he could have killed somebody. This guy should see a felony charge if you ask me.

I don't see the Constitution as giving us a free pass on guns like some claim it does. There should be restrictions and a higher bar to meet.

Agreed.

I would also couple that with serious, full on, mandatory education for everybody.

Full and complete understanding about guns, how to use them, be safe around them, their hazards, their benefits, impact on crime, etc... should be core to our education system.

In a generation, we would see diminished gun issues because the taboos and myths would all be busted, leaving people to make solid choices.

If we are free to do something, I believe we have a social burden to make sure the choices are informed ones.

If we can't do that, then we really can't have the freedom as we are not mentally ready to actually handle it as a people.

I think that licensing guns is a good idea.

"Someone breaks into my house and steals my gun. I report it to the police. Some period of time, that gun is used in a crime.

The registered gun owner has nothing to do with the crime.

How would I having registered that gun help the police solve the crime or find out who used the gun in the crime?"

In exactly the same way that one would benefit by knowing the origin of a stolen car. It is not as simple as blaming you for the violent act. It is a good starting point for investigation. Without a point of origin, it is difficult, if not impossible, to know where to look first.

We live in a country where free speech is protected by the Constitution. However, every media outlet is regulated to one extent or another. Those who maintain equipment must have certified training. Those who deliver a message must not use profanity. Those who own the station must be licensed.

I see no difference at all between guns, cars or radio stations. Our Constitution guarantees us the right of travel, of free communication and the right to bear arms. It does not say that every Tom, Dick and Harry is entitled to those things without some sort of permit, standards, test or training.

I will cite one prime example: Helicopters.

Another law abiding gun owner becomes a former law abiding gun owner:

By TERESA BLACKMAN, kgw.com Staff

PORTLAND, Ore. -- A brave resident wrestled a shotgun out of the hands of a man who police said was shooting at vehicles and threatening residents in Northeast Portland early Sunday morning.

People first reported hearing shots fired just before 1 a.m., alerting police dispatchers to send officers to an apartment complex in the 700 block of NE 94th Avenue.

Witnesses told police a man was threatening people and firing at vehicles. Then, one of the residents attacked the suspect and managed to pull the shotgun away from him, according to investigators.

Police said the suspect suffered serious injuries to his head and face during the scuffle but his injuries were not life-threatening. He was transported to a local hospital by ambulance.

No one else at the apartment complex was injured.

The name of the suspect has not yet been released. Police also have not said what specific charges he will face once he’s released from the hospital.

Get rid of guns, they are useless unless you are Jed Clampett out shooting at some food to keep your family fed..

How about this?

Open Carry baby!

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-opencarry7-2008jun07,0,8499 12.story

Legal in many places! Hmmm...

Betcha that guy drives a huge 4x4 and has a small penis that does not please his wife.

Well it IS Utah, so the wifey doesn't matter.

What a typical bunch of Utah dil-rods.

You know it Mc. Bet he feels really good about it too.

"Gresham teen shot when bullet falls from sky"

By ANTONIA GIEDWOYN, kgw.com Staff

GRESHAM – Two teenagers were arrested Sunday night after they fired a gun into the air, hitting another teen a block away, police said.

Josh Koga, 16, told police he was outside and heard what he thought were fireworks or gunshots before suddenly feeling pain in one foot.

He found a bullet lodged in his bleeding foot, though neither Koga nor any of his friends had seen a vehicle or any suspects to the shooting, said Gresham Police. Sgt. Claudio Grandjean.

About the same time, officers were also dispatched to reports of fireworks or shots fired from an apartment complex a block away, located at 815 SE 223rd.

Police arrested Emilo Villegrana, 18, and Austin Hoover, 16, Grandjean said. They were charged with assault, reckless endangerment and unlawful use of a weapon.

Neither suspect intentionally shot at the victim, and in fact probably could not have seen him from where they were standing, according to Grandjean.

"What goes up, must come down," he said.

Koga was treated for his injury.

"Fight ends in shooting at Gresham restaurant"

By KGW Staff

GRESHAM – A late Monday night fight ended with a shooting outside Bogey's restaurant, near the Gresham Golf Course, according to police dispatchers.

One person was transported to the hospital and officers took one suspect into custody.

There was no word on the extent of the victim's injuries or what prompted the fight.

Gresham police said several witnesses were being uncooperative.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,378142,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,377861,00.html

Everyone needs a pistol.

I wasn't going to click on a Fox News link, but I did.

1st one: Hilarious
2nd one: Tragedy