And the drumbeat of young evangelical voters continues. These could be THE important swing voters.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/29/evangelical.campaign/index.html

I'll come back later with something profound and exceedingly clever. But for now, I'm so sleepy.

Chris, it is interesting how the oldest of 'olde tyme' religion, monasticism, is at the root of it all. Yet, as ancient as the idea is, it is still a surprise.

I think the fact that it still startles folks is what makes it kinda beautiful. The prophetic tends to be a whole lot simpler truth spoken without traps or trappings.

As a follow up to the CNN report, you might enjoy this program. "The New Monastics" was first broadcast May 10, 2007 as part of the Speaking of Faith series on NPR.

Christianity can easily become a myopic experience, so the secret is keeping it real. It is encouraging to see a renaissance of service from the youth and young at heart in churches around the country.

When I read the headline, I thought sure you were talking about OBomba. I was all set to post that he's not really the Messiah, liberals only think that.

Deane I knew the title would get a response from you. It's good to see young people attempting to improve the world in which they live in.

LS when I get time I'll check out that NPR program.

12 marks these people go by:

1) Relocation to the abandoned places of Empire.

2) Sharing economic resources with fellow community members and the needy among us.

3) Hospitality to the stranger

4) Lament for racial divisions within the church and our communities
combined with the active pursuit of a just reconciliation.

5) Humble submission to Christ’s body, the church.

6) Intentional formation in the way of Christ and the rule of the community along the lines of the old novitiate.

7) Nurturing common life among members of intentional community.

8) Support for celibate singles alongside monogamous married couples and their children.

9) Geographical proximity to community members who share a common rule of life.

10) Care for the plot of God’s earth given to us along with support of our local economies.

11) Peacemaking in the midst of violence and conflict resolution within communities along the lines of Matthew 18.

12) Commitment to a disciplined contemplative life.


An interesting sect for sure.

Reminds me the Jesus People Movement (alternate to the Hippies of the 60's) Don't know if they have their priorities right. I hope their focus is a Biblical world view via God's Word and purpose. What goes around comes around?

I think their mandate looks great. I love the first one in particular. My wife just read "The Secret History of the American Empire: Economic Hit Men, Jackals, and the Truth About Global Corruption” by John Perkins. This guy has lived it and now writes about it and also has ways to make things better.

Many older evangelicals were raised quite differently than the ones in this sect, but that's not a bad thing. Each generation needs to work out the words of Jesus in a way that is real for them. How that manifests itself will look very different than what is currently being seen.

Again this is not a bad thing.

BTW- Dan I heard from Kyle F. over the weekend. Email me and I'll get you caught up.

"When I read the headline, I thought sure you were talking about OBomba."

You know what Deane? Every time you do that it makes you look more foolish.

" Every time you do that it makes you look more foolish."

I'm sure it does to the radicals on the left. I'll mark that up as success.

Deane you gauge success much differently than I do.

Annoy a Liberal
Work, Succeed, Be Happy

Annoying people. Yep that will build strong communication between differing opinions.

I work smart. Have reached a nice level of success in many ways, and am certainly happy all without annoying those I disagree with.

Same goals reached but the pathway is certainly different.

Annoy a conservative
Be educated

Deane can we please get some common sense and intelligence out of you? Its really not asking alot. Or is it?

>>heard from Kyle F. over the weekend

got email from him with pictures...ah old radio memories...would'nt it be nice to post old radio pictures on pdxradio...ah...second thot...maybe not

Well I think it would be cool, particularly with some commentary, but then there are the lurkers, who take it past cool.

Dang!

Yeah, what happened to the talkative Deane. Lately it's been a few grunts and cut and paste hit jobs.

WTF?

Come on. It just isn't gonna be that bad when Obama is elected. We are likely to find some real conservative values embodied in the solutions, not just the bumper sticker stuff.

Promise.

>>some real conservative values embodied in the solutions

Missing...you are looking thru some different lenses than any conservative but we love you anyways!

You are looking thru some different lenses.

Not the rose colored ones that YOU EXTREME radical neo-CONs look through thank God above!

"Deane can we please get some common sense and intelligence out of you? Its really not asking alot. Or is it?"

Probably not from your viewpoint.

Broadway the simple reality is that the lens we share is bigger than we think.

It's the weighting we give to things that alters this perception, and I think that's also the challenge going forward.

Take our differences in theology. Granted, I'm out there on that stuff. No question about it. While you are pondering that, know I absolutely support your freedom to entertain yourself with whatever faith you feel works.

Can you return the favor in like kind? As a fellow American, you really should, as all of us should. That's the foundation of what the nation is about.

Does that one difference, for example, diminish the other things we share so much that we can't see them?

I don't think so. I think we are told to think so, and that's a problem. It's been a growing one for quite some time. We are told to think so because that divides us and where that division grows, others exploit us and we lose.

Go and read the "What does Republican mean" thread and see. After we factor out the hot button stuff, as Americans, we share a lot more than we think.

I wrote that thread largely because of what Chris says regularly. It's thought provoking.

We are regularly lead down the path of focusing on differences. Maybe this is tin foil hat stuff, but I also think that's a deliberate attempt to keep us from exerting our power as people.

Failure to do this --to check government, is to a large degree responsible for where we are today.

The rest is lies and distortions! At the end of the day, if we are not happy with the state of the union, it's our fault. I would rank being intellectually lazy right at the top, with being afraid to really communicate, as causes for the mess we see today.

(which is exactly why I'll spend time doing this)

If you think through "what is conservative?" you will find it partitioned across money, law, social issues, theology and other things. It's ok to be conservative on most things, but maybe not all things. That's just human.

If you think differently, consider where that came from, who said it and why.

This is the complexity that forms each of us. Boiling that all down to a single, one size fits all, you are either in the club, or you are not label just does not make any sense at all!

Socially, I'm quite liberal actually. Fiscally, I'm pretty conservative. With law, I just don't know. Maybe that one is just hard, or I don't know enough... can't decide. On theology, I'm decidedly liberal, and quite possibly radical at that.

My point being it's a mix!

Some serious introspection will reveal a similar mix, but to get there, you've got to set the label down and go at it with plain language.

Helps to look at some history too. What did conservative used to mean. Why? How has it changed and who initiated it?

Ask yourself those and you are going to find some surprising answers!

I make no claim to the conservative club. Don't think there is such a thing, for rational, thinking people. Conservative is a tool, an ideology that can be applied to problems. It's a way of thinking, not the answer.

This is true for liberal as well.

Failure to realize this brings with it divisive politics and false choices.

I, for one, have had quite enough of that. It might not be easier to get along, do the work of thinking to get there, but it is more productive and it's absolutely American to the core, which is what we are all supposed to be about at the lowest levels.

"any conservative" Really? Have you engaged in some of the stuff I just wrote? Can you be absolutely sure that "any conservative" would not see some common ground there?

I don't think you can.

Back when I was in college the “new” conservative moment was spreading across my small college campus. One fall Saturday some students were handing out Reagan/Bush bumper stickers during a football game. Personally I thought it was tacky.

Two students went toe-to-toe using our editorial section of our locally published on campus newspaper to express opposing opinions. Emotions ran deep.

I was living off-campus at the time and I remember watching the Presidential returns with the family I was staying with. The father of this family would say “gotcha” when another Republican won over a Democrat.

This was only my second Presidential election at the time and I distinctly remember how divisive my college campus had become. Students and close friends of mine became almost like enemies and I found myself in the middle of the mud. I didn’t like it and was questioning if it was worth it.

Now here we stand on the edge of another movement pushing back in many ways from what happened in 1980. But also I think it’s redefining itself (as Missing has stated so well).

I offer up these posts for something more to chew on. To share that not all Christians are in the same boat and there’s nothing wrong with that.

It’s also interesting for me personally because I have known Deane Johnson and Broadway professionally and personally. It’s been very different for me to disagree and discuss some of these matters knowing the history I have with both of these men. And to honest, a bit scary too.

I have many friends and associates that we don’t see eye to eye, but that’s what I love about it all. In the end it’s the fabric that we weave communicating our feelings and positions. Even when I’m at the most defensive I’m still learning from those I disagree with and for lack of better words: I appreciate that.

I was raised in a home where it was okay to question authority. But be respectful when you do question and stay honest and true to your belief system. That has served me well over the years. Even today when my kids question God and how relative it is or isn’t in there minds I’m totally okay with it because they are finding there way. They are defining their young lives at an appropriate time. My wife and I give that space to question and have in essence non-belief. It makes for some wonderful conversation and we’re not afraid of it. We embrace it as we embrace our kids.

BW, it is interesting that you think they remind you of the "Jesus Hippies" when the new kids are much more like the Diggers of the 60s, Quakers, or Anabaptists. As I recall, most of the "back to nature" Christian crowd of boomers just abandoned the city. They read too much Walden in college and thought that they too could live off a trust fund in the woods. So, they started communes and eventually did the things that religious nuts do when they are left alone in the middle of nowhere. Now, many of these folks have turned into bible bashing survivalists with a wildly xenophobic view.

The new movement is the exact opposite of the lazy boomer ideals of slacks, bugs and cradle roll. They are not interesting in pretending to be hayseeds in some Judeo-Christian version of Green Acres. These are folks that are concentrating on the poorest parts of the inner city and have done so successfully and quietly for over a decade. Not because they need a black or brown friend to feel liberal, but because there is such a desperate need for selfless people. There is something timeless and beautiful about a young person who is not wrapped up in themselves, but gives of themselves. I truly admire the tenacity, bravery and love that these kids possess.

Great stuff Chris and Missing!

Probably not from your viewpoint.

I looked from YOUR viewpoint for over 20+ years and I now look at how screwed America is. I feel ashamed and appalled that it's come to this. Obviously RADICAL RIGHT isn't the answer.