New deal worth $400 million over 8 years. Estimated to take in a salary of $38 million per year. Buying a new G550 private jet.

And you guys think being a poor liberal is the way to go. I'll take conservative success any day.

http://www.drudgereport.com/flashrl.htm

Rush's new transportation for you guys looking at bicycles and motor scooters to get about with, in case you want to compare.

http://www.gulfstream.com/g550/

The size of a persons bank account is no measure of their value as people.

All this confirms is that a significant fraction of us really, really, really wants to be rich assholes! Anytime they want their fix --to know that it's really possible, they can just tune into Rush and feel good about those aspirations.

And that's not conservative by any measure.

Since when did conservative mean, bigot, wasteful, asshole, hypocrite, liar, cheat, addict? Rush is a DOCUMENTED case of all of those things. Classic case of do as I say and not as I do.

Those are all recurring themes in this message, with the core of the message being that we all should feel really good about these things.

Rush is a successful asshole, who happens to self-identify as conservative. Any real conservative person, with even a small measure of self-respect, would be outraged at seeing that fat ass, blow hard associating themselves with them as a fellow conservative.

All of those people, voting against their self interests, make people like Rush more possible.

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people, IMHO.

With that said, he does GREAT radio! Even after hammering his ears abusing painkillers, he managed to continue, almost completely deaf! That's amazing really.

His willpower and technical advances the creationists would legislate away, out of fear that real science might threaten their dogma, have brought him back to near peak performance.

As a broadcaster, he's top notch. That's worth a lot! That's clear. Totally agreed.

"Since when did conservative mean, bigot, wasteful, asshole, hypocrite, liar, cheat, addict? Rush is a DOCUMENTED case of all of those things. Classic case of do as I say and not as I do."


There's a tiny bit of "hate the messenger" in this.

I wish his personal lifestyle was more right-choices. A person that can't stay married/3 marriages says some about his character plus a partaker of cigars and over counter drug problems...not great signs of a squeeky clean conservative...he's not perfect but one of the greatest radio communicators of all time and now even more sucessful...which does say something about his personal disciplines and self control...the numbers/listeners have to be there!

"I wish his personal lifestyle was more right-choices. A person that can't stay married/3 marriages says some about his character plus a partaker of cigars and over counter drug problems...not great signs of a squeeky clean conservative.."

Who gets to define the standards?

His former wifes...

"His former wifes..."

Never good.

The fact is he's still a junkie and has never taken responsibility for his conduct. He blamed the sun, the moon and the stars for his behavior. And in the end, they only people who take him seriously are his apologists – those who are naive enough to take him seriously. It amazes me that conservatives will give this guy a pass when his personal behaviors makes such a mockery of the conservative message. Just another conservative hypocrite. He had his moment in the sun but like many of his GOP brethren, he's proven to be a bigot and hypocrite of the highest order.

As for the money and the jet, he’s a brand that appeals to old, unhappy white men with deposable income. They all can sit around and commiserate as an African-American president gets elected president of the United States. It couldn’t be more fitting. And knowing just how proficient Rush is as a race batter, you know he’s got a thing or two hidden up his KKK robe.

Deane writes: "His former wifes..." Never good.

Spoken like a true gentleman.

HOORAY FOR LIMBAUGH!

Deane, are you a regular listener?

"The fact is he's still a junkie"

Do you have a link to the proof of this?


As for the money and the jet, he’s a brand that appeals to old, unhappy white men with deposable income.

Any way you can explain to me why it's better to be a poor liberal than a rich conservative?

" Any way you can explain to me why it's better to be a poor liberal than a rich conservative?"

I can't.

If I can point to a rich liberal who makes more than 38 M a year, does that make them better than Limbaugh? Does than make them more credible or trustworthy. No. Of course not. It makes them have more money. That's all.

Well, when one Liberal jumps off of a cliff, the rest of them do not feel that compulsory need to jump off with him.

Convervatives are quite a different animal though!

http://www.lemmingnation.com/lemmings.png

http://www2.lemmingnation.com/pile.png

"His former wifes..."

Deane...little tongue and cheek there...conservatives should have high personal moral standards as a given...what's interesting today is to see public figures have personal moral descreps and seem to still be successfull in their professions...people and my own wife can separate the 2 (hey start of a new thread)
I can't.

When Rush has the kind of jack that liberals like Bill Gates or Warren Buffet has, then you can talk about liberals being poor. Not to mention, it took brains for Gates and Buffet to make their riches. Rush made his off of hate.

Not to mention, it's well known that people of the liberal bent are more educated and make more money. All you have to do is look at any electoral map of any state, compare blue vs red, then compare per capita incomes and educations. The correlations are strong. Somehow, Deane broke the trend on income, but failed on the education side of things.

Oh Deane, once again, you're proving yourself a pathetic ne’er-do-well.

As for the money Deane, your shallowness screams volumes. There is nothing more boorish than someone obsessed with money – be they liberal or conservative. If you want to be the resident hedonist, go right ahead. I’m sure you’ll tackle the part with much enthusiasm.

As for your need for a link about Rush Limbaugh’s drug problem – every heard the adage “Once an addict, always an addict”. But an addict in recovery will atone for his or her sins. But if you hear Rush Limbaugh, atonement is not a part of his vocabulary. In fact, his maid must have been shoving pills down his throat. Nothing was ever old Rushbo’s fault. Anyway, contact the Florida Palm Beach County Sheriff’s Department. I’m sure their PIO can give you the details.

Deane sez: There's a tiny bit of "hate the messenger" in this.

Once again, it's time for hate -vs- disapproval class. Now in session!

Hate is a primal, powerful and dangerous emotion. People, driven by hate, are not rational. This is what makes the emotion so dangerous --it's potency to trump reason puts actions on the table that would otherwise not be defensible.

Disapproval, or maybe just simple loathing, is a different thing. This is a far more rational state. Not feeling good about somebody's character does not trump reason. It's just not as powerful.

Often these two emotions are confused. The top reason for this confusion is to marginalize strong judgments in an attempt to dismiss them as emotional reactions and as such, discount them as mere differences in personality.

That is what is being done here, right now, by Deane.

BTW: The tension and drama surrounding this mess is a HUGE part of how Rush gets his ratings.

Ok, out of session now. Having cleared that up, let's revisit Rush commentary.

Deane, the message sucks. It sucks because it's largely not defensible. Rush has supported bigotry, he has lied, he has cheated, he has been an addict --might still be one, but I don't know, he is excessive in his desire to serve his self and in his use of resources, and he is absolutely an asshole.

One thing he really isn't is conservative. And that's why his message sucks. He does to conservative what people like Dobson and Robertson do to Christian. This is a net loss overall.

Which is why I said that any conservative, with even a small measure of self-respect, would not be associated with Rush.

Now, asshole is somewhat subjective. Let's go to a court record for some more precision so that this gets nailed down too:

(from a court case where this defense resulted in a dismissal to a complaint related to somebody calling somebody else an asshole)

I. The word "asshole" is not a word of specific generic exactitude. The
word "asshole," when used to describe a physical portion of the human
body, is a void surrounded by the anal sphincter muscle. On the other
hand, when used as a characterization of an individual, the word
"asshole" denotes that the individual possesses some or all of the
following:

a. His acts or omissions do not conform generally to an accepted
pattern among members of a particular social group of which the
individual using the characterization is a member,

b. A person who by his conduct causes derision to be heaped upon
him by one or more other persons,

c. A person whose conduct has attained the degree of contemptibility
such that it defies characterization by any conventional language,

d. A person generally considered by his peers to conduct himself in
such a manner as displays a callous disregard for the feelings of other
human beings and thus deserving of being shunned and ostracized.

II. Defendant did not intend, nor were his remarks understood by
Plaintiff or any other person, to mean that the Plaintiff is in truth and in
fact a void surrounded by the anal sphincter muscle. On the other hand,
Defendant intended, and Plaintiff and others understood Defendant to
mean, that Plaintiff is indeed an "asshole" within the meaning of the
colloquialized characterization of an individual as described above.

Rush Limbaugh would easily pass this legal test.

He's an asshole. Additionally, he self-identifies as conservative, making him a conservative asshole.

And everybody loves to watch or listen to these kinds of people. It's morbid curiosity feeding boredom.

"He's an asshole."

quod erat demonstrandum

"Deane...little tongue and cheek there...conservatives should have high personal moral standards as a given."

Broadway, I think the point you are missing is that conservatives are people too. We ALL make mistakes. The difference seems to be that the Rush-types espouse one conservative, "family-values" lifestyle and live completely another lifestyle. Saying that drug-users and pushers should be locked up for life, WHILE taking out a bunch of illegal perscriptions to feed his OWN addiction .. isn't that just a bit hypocritical? Pounding the "traditional family values" table and defending the sanctity of marriage, yet having gone through three wives himself, isn't that hypocritical?

I have no problem with people who stress what they perceive important in conservative values. I may not agree with them, but they have the right to live their life as they see fit. No different than anyone else.

There should be NO room for those who preach those conservative values, but turn around and act in defiance of their own moral compass.

Hypocrisy pays well when you have ratings. The American listening audience must thrive on hearing lies. The majority of right wing conservative success stories (financially speaking) are reaping the seeds of 12 recent years of Republican underfunding of education at all levels. In so doing, the GOP has kept a proper education out of the hands of many now young adults, and it has taken a while for them to see the evil underpinnings of the conservative takeover of the GOP. The next election will be the definitive statement that the era of conservative lies and neglect is over, dead, kaput. But don't think for a minute that Clear Channel hasn't considered the impending death of conservative political strength in this new contract. The devil is in the performance requirements which are never made public in these humongous contracts. Besides, the Clear Channel execs clearly realize that there will be plenty of fodder generated by a more sane centrist government for right wing zealots to pounce on.
It's just a game. Limbaugh will remain the demagogue of choice for his audience until a louder, fatter, more closeminded individual can come along and steal them.

"Any way you can explain to me why it's better to be a poor liberal than a rich conservative?"

I sleep better at night

It's nice to know that hate is alive and well among you libs. Keep it up. It prevents you from focusing on the real world.

The size of a persons bank account is no measure of their value as people.

True! Hitler was very wealthy....

It's nice to know that hate is alive and well among you libs. Keep it up. It prevents you from focusing on the real world.

Too bad you don't live in that world DJ.
What about YOUR hate? The venom POURS from your posts time after time.

Hate is everywhere, and there is no better example of it than Rush Limbaugh. For years, he’s spewed it uninterrupted – except when ESPN fired the rotund windbag – which was well deserved.

As for keeping our eyes on the “real world”. Do you mean watching gas prices climb through the roof, wages stagnate, food prices skyrocket, health care cost going ballistic, and a war that has cost almost $700 billion dollars with no end in sight still waging and nobody the better for it? This is George W. Bush’s legacy – so to make a remark like it prevents “libs” for focusing on the real world suggests you’re living in an alternate reality. Perhaps a visit to the psychiatrist might help you.

The next four years won’t be about the communist takeover of America like you claim. It’ll be righting a ship that has been sorely hamstrung by the worst president in our history. Your president has been a failure – and it’ll be left to people with talent, brains and intellect to find our way out of the morass that he leaves in his wake.

And too bad for you and Rush Limbaugh, because it will be an African America president that'll be righting this ship. I’m sure that makes you just furious – but that is the real world. And thank God for it.

OUCH!

*PLONK*

"What about YOUR hate? The venom POURS from your posts time after time."

I don't hate, or dislike anybody. I just don't like certain forms of foggy thinking. The liberal viewpoint makes most sense to the weak minded. That's fine with me, I don't dislike the person, just their political position.

Obviously it takes A LOT of money to keep ones brain bathed in an Oxycontin induced haze.

A very good example of a weak minded individual is none other than our current president, George W. Bush. Coupled with his foggy thinking (just listen to him speak, he gives “foggy thinking” a whole new meaning), I think we’ve hit the jackpot with our weak minded and foggy thinking president, George W. Bush. That explains everything.

" I don't hate, or dislike anybody. I just don't like certain forms of foggy thinking. The liberal viewpoint makes most sense to the weak minded. That's fine with me, I don't dislike the person, just their political position."

So there is nobody that you dislike? I mean, I can understand why you'd not choose to use the word " hate " ( frankly, everyone would be better if they didn't actually hate. So I admire that.)

But dislike?

What would it take for you to dislike someone? And how do you separate actions of a person from their political beliefs?

So when you say " I don't dislike them - just their political beliefs " I'm interested in how that manifests itself. What would you do, say or think about someone who puts into action their political beliefs with which you dislike?

And define " weak minded." Believing something even after it's been shown to be false? What about promoting it, even if they don't believe it? ( say, for the sake of " reputation " or " party lines." )

"The liberal viewpoint makes most sense to the weak minded."

Nothing could be further from the truth. The conservative reality is on the way out. Your fears are evident in the way you lash out at what you refer to as a way of thought contrary to the lame, weak approach the right still clings to. What you refer to weak minded is in reality the strong. What you allude to as strong is weak. Very weak. So weak, that by the end of this calendar year the Conservative elements within the Republican party will be licking some big wounds. Loss of the Congress in 06 was just a tease of the Conservative implosion about to happen.

Deane_johnson:
New deal worth $400 million over 8 years. Estimated to take in a salary of $38 million per year. Buying a new G550 private jet.

TELL US HOW SMART HE IS DEANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess I'll go back to MSNBC, oh yeah, weren't you one who said liberal talk wouldn't go anywhere and WHO'S beating Fox in the ratings???

Deane, you pointed me at an airplane that is to be frank, boring.

So, the big news is that a share in a new Gulfstream has been leased by an old fat white guy who needs a jet with a 6,200 lb useful load rating and widened doors. I wonder if he will get a distended colon when he flushes the biffy after creating a canning jar seal over the little blue puddle? Or will it already be backed up with prescription bottles because a smartass co-pilot yelled, "Cops!"

I removed the links so as to not bring any aviation enthusiasts or old acquaintances into this sewer of a discussion.

"Rush's new transportation for you guys looking at bicycles and motor scooters to get about with, in case you want to compare. "

Talk about the "could care less files."

The power of the off button.

I can only think how many LOCAL radio talents 400 mill would pay for, and realize how many good folks are on the bench so that Rush one note can have it all... Man are we screwed up.

On the other hand Billy G and Warren Boofay earned most of their gazillions because of American workers buying into their game. Maybe they ought to solve American problems with the excess before tackling the world.

trying to figure why in 200 years this country built to it prominence, yet Africa, the cradle of the human race, hasn't gotten their stuff together in eons despite an overwelming abundance of resources.

Don't say domination by europeans.....look to Idi Amin Da Da, Tutsies killing Fruitsies, and the wild success of democracy in Zimbababrann, Liberia, and the mega millionaires working the diamond mines in Sud Afrika.... (note sarcasm.)

talk about throwing money down a rat hole.....

Ha!

So now it's liberal's are weak?

You just took it in the sack Deane. Weak my ass.

And that don't hate or dislike anybody is weak ass too.

The little secret folks is that he does not like either. You've either got money, a common interest in money, or you are just some boob he could care less about.

Is that it Deane, or maybe you will reconsider your earlier statements?

Which is it?

Must Resist.

"The fact is he's still a junkie"

Do you have a link to the proof of this?


YOU have proof that he isn't?

I just don't like certain forms of foggy thinking.

That why a VAST majority of America doesn't agree with YOUR viewpoint. That is seen in DUHbya's approval ratings.

"I just don't like certain forms of foggy thinking."

Yep, like when those nursing home attendents keep saying "flush what?" when you ask them "turn on Rush."

"I guess I'll go back to MSNBC, oh yeah, weren't you one who said liberal talk wouldn't go anywhere and WHO'S beating Fox in the ratings???"

I give up, who? And, what are the ratings?


"YOU have proof that he isn't?"

I realize you may not be educated, but one of the first things learned in science is that you can't prove a negative.

I heard this morning that the old windbag Rushbo is try to make him relevant again by starting his all out assault against Senator Barack Obama. He dislikes Senator McCain, but dislikes Senator Obama even more.

The face lifts and yo yo dieting are taking their toll, because nobody outside angry conservative white male circles takes the rotund one seriously. I’ll concede he may have had an impact on voters in the mid 1990’s, but certainly not today. He’s like the Mike Tyson of talk radio.

If he dislikes both, then clearly he's a member of a dying club.

Good.

>>he's a member of a dying club

a slow death till 2016.

"The face lifts and yo yo dieting are taking their toll, because nobody outside angry conservative white male circles takes the rotund one seriously."

His ratings would indicate you are full of prune juice.

That Rush is full of prune juice -- perhaps you're right Deane. I'm sure you're both very familiar with the effects of that geriatric elixir. Plus he needs something to wash down the OxyContin and Viagra.

I can't say that I appreciate the value of the first two posts in this thread, which amount to, "Look at Limbaugh's cool new toy." Why are we discussing this airplane in the first place? Nonetheless, I can believe that Limbaugh can afford an airplane that typically ranges in price between $45 million to $70 million. On the other hand, when I see big screen TVs in the townhouses across the street from me or fancy new tricked-out cars and big pickup trucks being driven by young working-class people, I can't help but think, those people certainly cannot afford that stuff. In this specific regard, I have more respect for the person who lives within his or her means.

Also, what is the problem with Limbaugh smoking cigars?

I'm sure he has a lease back deal. He buys the plane, but the flying service leases it from him for charter flights for other people.

The Gulfstream 550 is an intercontinental jet so I'm sure there are some interesting and well off folks chartering it for both transcontinental and international flights. Remember where he lives. There's enough money within sight of his residence to buy a good portion of Europe.

I'd be more impressed if he was flying it.

Bush is going to fly it for him after his term ends.

Bets on where they will crash?

Bush spent a large part of his 2000 campaign flying around on Ken Lay's plane.

Perhaps this is just a replacement for that.

You haters and demonizers of other people's success take the cake.

I haven't met a human being in my entire LIFE that wasn't totally screwed up with a few aspects of their lives, one way or another. Some people just hide their screwed-up-ness better. Or they're better liars and deniers. And I include myself in this wretched mass of screwed up, denying liar-to our-selfers.

You people get your knickers in a twist hating George Bush, Rush Limbaugh, John McCain, Fox News, Obama, Bill or Hillary Clinton, blah blah blah. I've seen this in person! People's entire DAYS are ruined by some "slight" or "offensive comment" from someone they disagree with or see on TV or hear on the radio! (And pdx radio wouldn't be as fun without people's ruined days, I admit!)

"President Bush is an idiot".. "Rush Limbaugh is a junkie"... "Obama is a fake"...

Well, Boo F**king Hoo. Shut your pie-holes. If you get your knickers in a twist because Rush Limbaugh, the pill addict and idiot just signed a $400 million dollar contract, I'd say your anger and bile over your twisted knickers is the LEAST of your problems.

Rush Limbaugh, love him or hate him, is the best at what he does in talk radio, which is attract listeners, which in turn attracts advertisers and their greenbacks. He's the best! He earned every penny.

It's the same in broadcasting as it is in Glengarry Glen Ross. Coffee's for closers. Rush Limbaugh deserved every drop of his $400 million dollars of "coffee".

Hmm . . . I think we now know who has an aspect of his life that is totally screwed up. Hopefully you get your leaking bile duct get fixed before you come here and spew it all over another thread.

"I haven't met a human being in my entire LIFE that wasn't totally screwed up with a few aspects of their lives, one way or another."

One more time:
It's the HYPOCRISY stupid!

>>Rush Limbaugh deserved every drop of his $400 million dollars

also give him the great talent of being a great negotiator...or hiring a great agent!

I didn't realize that because someone is a well paid bigot, hypocrite and OxyContin junkie that we’re required to fawn all over him. Seems contrary to having good common sense. Too, it's a wonderful thing to tell your kids -- this hate mongerer is paid $40 million dollars a year so you're required to love and respect him, no questions asked. Never mind he lies repeatedly and lives a thoroughly hedonistic lifestyle but claims to be a family values conservative. Not to mention he was fired him job at ESPN for making racist comments about an African-American quarterback.

Ty Cobb was the best at what he did. But he was a deplorable human being. Should we forget his foibles and fawn all over him too?

As for George W. Bush being an idiot. You’d have to be the dumbest cluck on Earth not to see that George W. Bush is the dumbest man ever elected president of the United States. So to serve as his apologist doesn’t speak well to your intellectual baring.

There are plenty of highly respectable individuals on this planet who deserve kudos for the lives they lead and the examples they set. Rush Limbaugh isn't one of them.

"George W. Bush is the dumbest man ever elected president of the United States"

Obviously you haven't compared him with Jimmy Carter.

Once again, Deane is stuck on stupid. As one of George W. Bush’s leading apologists on this board, we shouldn’t expect anything less. Deane's got the intellectual prowess of “The Three Stooges”. He proves himself blathering lightweight.

Compare with Carter?

Can't. Let's wait a few years for that comparison. Bush will be somewhere making bad business deals, getting hammered (and you know he wants that big), hunting bugs and clearing brush.

Carter went on to continue to be a Statesman, doing good public works.

An anthropologist friend of mine expressed wealth in terms of time freedom. One is wealthy when they get to call the shots on large portions of their time.

Character has to do with what one does with that free time.

Carter gets to call the shots with his time and does lots of good public things with it. He's got good character.

Rush?

Lets just say flying around on jets, and self-serving all the time is not the same kind of good character.

And that makes poor somewhat relative doesn't it Deane? One could have a bazillion dollars and be wealthy. One could also have enough dollars, live a solid life, and still be wealthy.

After a few million dollars it doesn't really matter anymore other than bragging rights. I look forward to Rush paying more taxes on his $38 million salary under President Obama.

"Carter went on to continue to be a Statesman, doing good public works."

Swinging a hammer building houses for the poor could probably be considered "doing good public works". Not very intellectual, but nevertheless, good.

Being a Statesman be meddling in foreign affairs and making stupid comments would not exactly come under the "good" column.

Are we done hammering Rush yet?

I just want to make sure before we enter the dodge fully.

To sum up:

He's an asshole, he's got a lot of money, he's a great broadcaster, and he's of low character not worth serious respect or credence, right?

Let's finish that before we start on Carter.

Hmmm which dodge will it be now. Silence, subject change, attack the opposing side, claim membership of exclusive club.... The list is in the archives Deane. I took the time to detail each one, so it's easy to see where the conversation goes from here.

Feel completely free to:

pick one of the known dodges and affirm the above, (that's a self lie too, harmful)

invent a new dodge (hoping for that, because I like collecting them!),

or rebut the above and show us that Rush really is a good guy, worthy of some respect. Burden is on you Deane, because inking a big contract to sell the asshole doesn't warrant that.

There is another option too. We could agree to disagree on Rush. That's a ready and fairly honest approach to your acceptance problem you know. We can just accept that you think Rush is the shit, and that's human. Perfectly ok, but you have to just be honest about it, for that to work as it should.

Everybody self-identifies with somebody. Is Rush really your role model Deane? If you feel ok about that, then that's all that matters. Just let us know and we can move on.

We are here to help Deane.

Deane's remark about President Carter has to be one of the most dim-witted things I’ve read of late. But again, that isn’t saying much. I've got to remember, this is Deane we're talking about.

Firstly, Habitat for Humanity is one of the most successful programs of its type in the world. So to cast aspersions on Habitat for Humanity shows that you are really every bit as addle-minded as you seem.

Secondly, his work as international statesman has earned him a Nobel Prize for Peace. This puts him on the same tier with folks such as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Archbishop Desomd Tutu, Amnesty International, Lech Walesa, Elie Wiesel, Nelson Mandela, Aung San Suu Kyi, the Dali Lama and Albert Gore among others. So I don’t know what planet your living on Deane, but his work on behave of peace makes your darlings Rush Limbaugh and George W. Bush look like low class carnival barkers. My apologies to carnival barkers everywhere.

Talpdx, your post speaks for itself. No need for me to add anything.

Yes Deane, it points out one very important point; you're an idiot -- and I don't write that lightly. At least Herb includes character and panache in his comments. Yours are just blatantly thick.

Carnival barkers!!!

That's a *PLONK!*

So, we are going for tried and true simple silence then. That works, but you do know then that leaves us with knowing you think Rush is the shit, and that you know he's an ass, cheat, liar, addict, and that all of that is perfectly ok.

Frankly, Limbonuts doesn't deserve all this attention. The blowhard has been lucky, but had it not been he whom commands the attention of all the dittoheads it would have been someone else.

Fatso's drug addiction, whore mongering and mindless attacks on the establishment are the drivel from which conservatives drink.
In their mind all his negatives are outweighed by the fact that he attacks that which is the most incendiary and will provide the most thermodynamic boost to his own ego and financial success. For him, it has never been about accurate journalism, rather it is his way to formulate a negative response to daily politics and find the buttons that by pushing them will enhance his own status.

Rush is also a racist.

If one reads back through the past 4 posts, one can quickly begin to understand the type people Obama and liberalism appeals to. Their words speak for them, and about them, louder than anyone else could.

Yes, intelligent and articulate posts. Thank you, Deane. That's very kind of you. I'm glad you can appreciate the thoughts of thinkers who take their cues from someone other than the right wing radio talk show demagogues or GOP propaganda artists.

Annoy a Conservative
Be Educated

I forgot racist.

Nice catch.

Really then, he's just a great broadcaster. Great enough to prevail, despite running nearly the full table of character flaws.


Deane, I'm actually very glad to be in the company of "the type [of] people Obama and liberalism appeal(s) to". Great bunch.

They are opinionated, willing to really go the distance on real conversation, understand why America is setup the way it is, tolerant, critical thinkers, willing to help their fellow contributor out, not weak enough to surrender their value to fear, respect the rule of law, willing to ask tough questions, concerned about the state of their nation, community and fellow Americans, funny, witty, knowledgeable, need I go on?

Humbled. Truely humbled to share time with such fine people.

You should try the dark side man! Come on in, the water is just fine. You can still be the guy that makes money and all that. Republicans don't own that quality, they just say they do because it gets votes.

Lots of things are easier this way. Managing all those self lies really is costly. I think it makes people die sooner too. And down deep, nobody really wants to be all those bad things either.

The majority American view is a distinctly progressive one in many ways. There is a healthy mix of conservative -->that's real conservative values there too.

Really, if you just factor out all the Republican crap, leaving just being a good, conservative person, few people have a beef with that, and likely share plenty. A growing majority of Americans are beginning to see the light on this stuff.

Republicans support the racists, bigots, liars, cheats, theocrats. That's the current base of the party!

The 23 percenters Deane. Those are the people that are holding the Republican party together, and the very wealthy, looking to maximize that at everybody elses expense, are encouraging them on, knowing they can just dangle some promises out there, use them for the vote, and should it pass, be wealthy enough to not worry about the negative impact it would have on everybody else.

Do you really want to be associated with that crowd?

Man, I sure don't. Just look around. Republican is a very dirty word now. Dirty enough that many of them just don't use it, or try to lob it in with GOP instead.

...those kind of people.

What? Is it against some hidden rule to call out those with core character flaws? Can't talk about a bigot because we might actually offend the bigot, or worse, maybe they are a wealthy bigot, so that's a double no-no?

Forget that.

Better to just step up, speak the truth to the power and sleep well.

Annoy a Conservative
Be Educated

Educate a Liberal to be a Conservative
Priceless.

How about get rid of most labels and create dialogue.

Meaningful dialogue and not just talking points and bumper sticker theology.

Can we really do that?

If we were to get rid of the labels, then we would actually have to think about issues and positions. That has been a sure-fire thread killer in the past.

Damn.

I'm up for it.

We've been there, not often, but it happens!

Or how about this: If you are looking for a talkshow host who really supports "smaller government," listen to Neal Boortz. Of course, Boortz isn't as cool as Limbaugh because he doesn't have his own airplane.

The "smaller government" argument is one that I have heard from former Republicans every now and then. The party held the promise--like a carrot on a stick--that if elected, they would curtail spending and cut down governmental bureaucracy. Of course, things didn't work out this way.

>>Meaningful dialogue

NOT...just trying to be creative/cute/funny/whimsical...against such there is no law.

...but he said "Damn!"

Broadway, I don't think the post was directed at those things.

Try the no labels bit. It's really tough to get started. Gets easier over time. You will find it a very interesting exercise.

Alfredo, right on. What I find interesting about that pitch is that the alternative is private business, or each person fending for themselves.

Private business (or public, depending on trading) has just as much beuracracy as government does --sometimes more. That's not a sure thing. In addition to that, it's got to make a clear profit, meaning we could be in trouble, depending on the business model. Finally, we really don't have good representation on the business model, and may be limited in our legal options to address flaws in it.

Not a sure thing either.

Where there isn't a sure thing, we need to debate it, vote on it, and work through options on it.

The only way to "educate" a liberal to be conservative is to dumb them down with lies, fear, and misinformation and hope for the best.

I am a supporter of private sector solutions to some extent, as long as there is fair competition and there is the freedom to come up with new ways to solve the problem. I think that where a lot of the more "theoretical" types get into trouble (and I run into a LOT of folks like this in the Libertarian Party) is that they often try to take such ideas to impractical extremes. For instance, privatizing surface streets is not going to work.

I'm not sure whether or not the Republican Politicians who said they favored "smaller government" really believed in this at one time. Maybe once they got into office, the pressure to make exceptions here and there became too strong. Or, maybe these promises were just smoke and mirrors for the voters all along.

So am I actually.

There really is no one size fit all. Sometimes nationalizing something makes good sense. I think this will be true of health care --and energy maybe.

Where having business handle things, granting monopolies must be accompanied by regulation, or the market so created must be structured in ways that more or less force that, or we get the shaft.

On nationalized programs, there needs to be a similar balance where regulation and or transparency makes for an environment where we know the score, and have options for making changes, or we get the shaft.

Just putting people in charge of fiefdoms makes absolutely no sense.

Maybe it's smoke and mirrors for some of the corrupt ones, but I suspect there are a fair number of people, both in office and just ordinary citizens, that truely believe in the economic theories that lead to those kinds of decisions.

Of course, debating this in a robust fashion tends to clarify this and get to real options.

If Obama does even a fraction of what he says he wants to do, where encouraging this kind of behavior to happen, I think we will see a significant improvement.

The key for me is to balance the options with our resources and the desired outcome. If it's an ideological round peg for a square hole, then it's not going to do anybody any real good.

"And you guys think being a poor liberal is the way to go. I'll take conservative success any day."

Which, apparently, means:

"white men with deposable income."

Well, Deanne, I know you meant 'despicable income', but point taken.

"Well, Deanne, I know you meant 'despicable income', but point taken."

Its a bit surprising such a die-hard conservative underwent the M2F reassignment surgery, but I wish her well in dealing with the many (no doubt mostly conservative) friend, colleague and family members who will abandon her after discovering what has transpired here. Good luck Deanne.

Deane isn't very educated is he?

I don't think that's true. Tempting to say though!

Really, he's cranky more than anything.

Broadway sez: "...just trying to be creative/cute/funny/whimsical..."

That will happen the same day hell freezes over.

Just trying to show you I'm human and can joke and have fun. I'm in radio so I have fun at work so why not here...need myself to lighten up a bit.

That would be good. Thank you.

Having fun should be a high priority!

Why not?

If you have fun, then you're not a professional. I'm sure that's printed somewhere in the corporate radio handbook.

Nope!

Just working with the wrong group of people, that's all.