http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25510193/

We lost 66,000 jobs in June. We've lost 438,000 jobs in 2008. The US needs to create 125,000 jobs each month JUST TO BREAK EVEN WITH POPULATION GROWTH. So, even if we had created 750,000 jobs to date, we'd be even. Instead, we are 438,000 in the hole.

The Bush economy just doesn't work!

"The Bush economy just doesn't work!"

Let's think about that for a minute. Which two things are having the greatest effect on the economy? I would say the housing mess and the high gas prices.

So, Vitalogy, you're saying the nonsense loans that created the housing mess started the day Bush took office, right?

We're totally dependent on foreign oil. Let's think about that for a moment.

The liberals won't allow us to drill in Anwar.
The liberals won't allow us to drill off the coast of California.
The liberals won't allow us to drill in the Gulf of Mexico.
The liberals won't allow us to drill off the coast of Florida.
The liberals won't allow us to harvest oil from shale in the Rockies.
The liberals won't allow us to build new refineries.

That's all George Bushes fault. We weren't dependent on foreign oil until the day Bush took office.

Vitalogy, either you're stupid, or you think we're too stupid to catch on, or you just get your jollies repeating stupid liberal talking points.

Bush inherited these problems but he let them get a lot worse. Just imagine if Bill Clinton had let the US budget deficit explode in 1993 like some of his advisers suggested, just to satisfy one wing of his party. Instead, he attacked the deficit, showed leadership. Clinton's presidency was a mess in 1993-94 but in retrospect it may have been his finest hour.

9/11 should have been a wake-up call for any president that America's dependence on foreign oil meant we were too dependent on the Middle East as a region to be stable. Instead of pushing the country toward energy independence after 9/11 - increasing CAFE standards, insisting on more efficient building codes, investing in an Apollo-style program to develop alternate sources of fuel - Bush lead us into Iraq. This is negligence. That's why he shares some blame for today's skyrocketing oil prices.

There isn't enough oil in ANWR to make any difference in future oil supplies. Deane, either you're stupid or too stupid to understand the basics of supply and demand.

As for the housing crisis, one big reason for it was the lack of regulation on lending. Unchecked greed leads to economic disaster - we've seen it time and time again under Republican leadership. Remember the S&L scandals of the 1980s? The fact that all these foolish loans were allowed to be made in the first place is just another example of the failure of Republican economic policies and "hands-off" government.

Andrew

I was sort of wondering if anyone would step up and point out it was going on under the Clinton administration. Guess not. It's easier just to blame everything on Bush. And let's be sure we don't point out that the Democrats now control Congress. Naw, let's just blame it all on Bush.

Let's look at how GOP friendly Wall Street fed the housing crisis. Wall Street firms were making RECORD profits in part because of a variety of loan schemes that put people into houses they could not afford – but Wall Street did not care. They ignored the practices of their subsidiaries in the mortgage business because they were making money hand over fist. As did government regulators – they totally dropped the ball and ignored warning signs that were apparent for years. And once the s*it did hit the fan, consumers began defaulting on these high risk mortgage loans and the housing market collapsed.

How much f*cking money has the Federal Reserve and foreign banks pumped into Wall Street because of the greed and sheer stupidity of Wall Street over the past several months? Hundreds of billions of dollars. Estimates are that it'll cost into the trillions to fix this mess. And to make this about liberals has to be about the dumbest, and I mean dumbest thing I’ve seen you write. Don't insult our intelligence. How stupid do you think we are Deane?

As for the drilling issue, if George W. Bush is such a brilliant legislative tactician, why then did he not change the law when Republicans were in control of both the White House and Congress and make it possible to drill in all the places you mentioned? Something’s got to give, but the petrochemical industry is about as trustworthy as a your neighborhood meth dealer. If you think they’re interesting in putting this nation first, think again. These are multi-national conglomerates who sell to the highest bidder. Who says the oil drilled in the US will stay in the US? I wouldn’t trust these firms as far as I could throw them.

"The liberals won't allow us to drill in Anwar.
The liberals won't allow us to drill off the coast of California.
The liberals won't allow us to drill in the Gulf of Mexico.
The liberals won't allow us to drill off the coast of Florida."

None of the above are a short term solution.
Long term, none of the above will amount to a significant contribution to energy demands.

"The liberals won't allow us to harvest oil from shale in the Rockies."

Totally insignificant short term. Not to mention that this method is generally considered the most environmentally offensive method to obtain oil on the planet and is being frowned upon internationally, not just by "liberals" in America.

"The liberals won't allow us to build new refineries. "

That's just scapegoating for a 12 year Republican Conservative run in Congress that produced no results on any of the pressing energy issues.

Blaming this on liberal thought or environmentalism extremists is just more of the finger pointing which is all that remains for the failed Bush administration to do.

Deane, your the one that's lacking in being totally informed. You are also not the pragmatist you fancy yourself. You just want to jump all over the new Congress that's still struggling to get anything done within the confines of the Bush veto. Your posts have devolved into repeat rants and are quite boring and have no contributory points that haven't been made, more than likely by you, a thousand times. Occasionally you lapse into a brief moment of reason and raise good questions about finding solutions, but the majority of what you write is easily dismissed as pejorative drivel.

Of course none of these things are a short term solution. There isn't one. The liberals have had this country hog tied for several decades now. Had we allowed development, these production sources would be on line now.

All I hear from the libs is "it wouldn't be enough to help". That's all. Oh yes, and "it's Bushes fault".

All we heard from the libs before the Alaska pipeline was that it was going to fuck up the caribou. Turns out the Caribou love it.

It's not easier to just blame it on Bush, it's factually correct to blame it on Bush. It's his economic policies that have led to massive deficit spending and job losses. It's his foreign policies that have led to the Iraq war, which has created deficts and higher oil prices.

And the Democrats don't control Congress, they have a very small minority. They are continually checked by either vetos or fillibusters from the obstructionist GOP. This will change very soon though.

And Deane, I know a helluva lot more on the economy than you do. I deal with it every day and watch the markets every day, and I'm constantly doing research on where we are going and why we are where we're at. I'll school you when it comes to this topic.

Didn't the Democrats promise if given control of Congress this last time that they'd bring down gas prices? I wonder what happened to that campaign promise. I'll be it was those nasty Republicans again. Drat.

We can thank that monstrosity of a president for globetrotting around the world, begging the Saudi’s to pump for few more hundred thousand barrels of oil each day to relieve the pain at the pump. Like that's going to do any good.

As for Congress, you need an engaged president to support and sign legislation making changes to help the oil situation. He refuses to take matters seriously, unless of course it’s signing a war supplemental. But the Republicans in the US Senate filibuster nearly everything the Democrats try to move forward. So if you understood how Congress works, you’d easily see that the Democrats need a 60 person majority to get legislation related to the oil debacle moved to a vote on final passage.

Hell, according to all the liberals, nothing is going to do any good, so why don't we just sit on our hands and do nothing. Sitting around bitching is a much better use of our energy.

Deane writes:
Hell, according to all the liberals, nothing is going to do any good, so why don't we just sit on our hands and do nothing.

Which liberal? How about quoting even one - and a real one, not a made-up quote from your vivid imagination, who says we should "do nothing?"

Andrew

Deane, Prince of Glib.

No, Deane, it hasn't been the liberals "sitting on ... hands" from '94 to '06. It has been the conservative Republicans giving Carte Blanche to Bush and his phony war, draining every ounce of wherewithal this country has. Get it right, if you can rise above your near genetic predisposition to stupid.

"It has been the conservative Republicans giving Carte Blanche to Bush and his phony war,"

I must have missed something. I was thinking the Republicans didn't have enough votes to give Bush anything and it took Democrat votes to fund anything.

You missed a lot. Re rack the last 14 years and watch it again.