Here you go Warner...

A favorite genre of mine, to be sure, but most of what I own is through various compilations picked up through the years. Most pull heavily from the 70's, 80's and 90's as it seems (to me anyway) not many bands are making what qualifies anymore. It always kills me how some of the songs never made it big because some never get skipped on my ipod rotation (The Flaming Groovies' "Shake some Action" comes to mind).

The Flamin' Groovies are indeed a lost band. I'm listening to Supersnazz CD (quality production improvement over the vinyl) right now. So good at reaching across the genres.

Like Dave Edmunds, Long John Baldry, and other late 60's rockers trying to segue the 50's rock phenomenon into the 60's r&b/rock/blues stream. Dismissed by epicures as not belonging to any genre. This is really a misnomer. Kind of where the Beatles/Chuck Berry/The Kinks/Stones all have a common point.
It's hard to describe and I'm doing a miserable job of it.

You just have to listen to them.

The First One Is Free

Apparently they don't agree with you. I have the groovies greatest and not a single track from Supersnazz is on there. It's funny, too, because if you compare the artwork of the cover, the "greatest" cover uses the same cartoony figure but that's all it has in common with it.

The CD re-issue of Supersnazz came out after Groovies Greatest Grooves was put out. The original vinyl had a lot of production errors, so I am not surprised none of that material made the Greatest Grooves. Also there are multiple lables involved so there might have been issues there as well. I'm always trying to remember to be on the lookout for Flamingo and Teenage Head.
Those were on Buddha Records and I covered them on the radio way back. After then, two members left and I lost track of what they were doing.

How about these "modern" era Power Poppers?

Raspberries, Big Star, Badfinger, The Nazz (Todd!), Small Faces, and others.

Then came Dwight Twilley, 20/20(love them!), The Beat, Shoes, Great Buildings, The Hawks, and others in the 80's. What a great time that was. I've got all those on vinyl still.

Then we have XTC, The Jam, Squeeze, The Records, and even Elvis Costello could fall in this group.

I need to rest for a minute!

I expect to see Littlesongs wiegh in here...

I heard Supergrass on KUFO today as I got in my car and just about flipped my lid...then I head it was Taylor Hawkins from Foo Fighters playing a set of songs. ( Supergrass opened for them last night in Portland ).

I still love Cheap Trick quite a bit. Not just their old stuff, either.

Material Issue.
Jellyfish. ( SO good )
The Fratellis.
XTC, of course.

I've noticed a slight trend towards Do-Woppish / Motown sounds lately too ( horns, snares played with brushes, been-a-while-since-I-heard-precussion-like-that elements ) - with a tinge of Psychedelica. The Duke Spirit. Beck's new one. Duffy. I do not really dig the Dandy Warhols latest stuff. But I can certainly appreciate it. I miss Eric Hedford's influence on harmonies and writing. ( Although his band Telephone I like a lot ). The Black Angels. ( Very Doors sounding ) The Black Hollies. Black Rebel Motorcycle Club - anyone with " Black " in their name, apparently.

Oh Squeeze - yeah.

The dB's.

Yep! Grinning over year at the mention of the Raspberries.

This is gonna be a killer thread.

The Shoes "Present Tense" is an underrated classic.

Sad to say I've left the vinyl behind, but digitally speaking I have some of those and Bram Tchaikovsky, the Plimsouls, the Hoodoo Gurus, The Smithereens, the La's, the db's, Nick Lowe, Let's Active, Phil Seymour, the Spongetones, the Posies and the Bangs close at hand.

Supergrass performed a couple songs on 94.7 this morning.

I thought wouldn't it be great if they actually played 'em.

I saw Supergrass a couple of years ago, fantastic!

Bram Tchaikovsky, I just played that the other day, talk about every song consistently great.

Posies, love 'em. Smithereens of course, one of the great underrated bands. Let's Active yep.

Okay, more: Matthew Sweet! Marshall Crenshaw (1st album is basically perfect), and Teenage Fanclub. You can't get much better.

Great call on Matthew Sweet (with also a couple of the best album covers to match).

How about The Rubinoos?

And I don't care what anyone says, the Knack deserved to rule the radio.

The Bangles were good until they signed a record deal.

From the early 90's, the Candy Skins put out some good stuff.

Billy Nichols ... probably not a single poster has ever even heard of him. I've got the first two on CD (rare on vinyl, on which I first was turned on to him in 1973 just before the second one came out). He's authored many songs made hits by others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Nicholls

http://www.billynicholls.com/

Warner, Powerpop= portlands own "Sequel" Greg georgeson,Todd Jensen,Grant Roholt and David wall layed down some of the greatest power pop around. my dream Power pop show would be Sequel opening for The Raspberries and Cheap Trick.Several years ago Sequel reunited for a show at the Roseland ,Same Night as Big Star was @dantes i chose Sequel..........

I have been mighty busy, but I cannot resist this thread. This is shaping up already to be a list of my some of my all-time favorite bands. To this powerpop lovefest, I have to toss in a few off the top of my sleepy head. Badfinger and Big Star are definitely in the holy realm of the genre. So, focusing on the latter, let me see how many bands I can fit into the backseat of my big black car. Starting with the posthumously released solo effort of Chris Bell, to Memphis' own answer to Big Star, the Grifters, to a Minneapolis band that sang a song called "Alex Chilton" and put him in the producer chair, The Replacements.

To add some regional flavor, how about some of our friends to the north? Back when all the phlannel phonies from the majors hit the Emerald City and mobbed the altar of the powerchord, they skipped quite a bit of the very best stuff. Sure, the world had a fleeting chance to meet Vancouver's Grapes of Wrath and fall in love with The Posies at long last, but what about The Moberlys, The Green Pajamas, The Fastbacks, Young Fresh Fellows or even Portland's own Sugarboom?

Down in L.A. there were some great bands that came out of the so-called Paisley Underground. The 80s launched the last gasp of pop from a once fertile hotbed. The Long Ryders, Salvation Army/Three O'Clock, Redd Kross, Rain Parade and exported Irishmen, The Steppes. I am sure there were a few others in the mix, but the fact that the Bangs were the only successful ones speaks volumes about the industry. Some snarkier folks called them the "Bang-less" at the time, but that wasn't fair. I still have a crush on the bass player, Michael Steele. Labels like SST, Frontier and Voxx/Bomp were kinda like the Elektra of their day, but good distribution or not, airplay was limited. Sure, there are still talents down there existing under increasingly difficult circumstances, but they do not play "L.A." anymore and the remaining indie labels fight to survive.

New Zealand is a longtime thriving hotbed of hook filled music. Many have seen the light of day with the Flying Nun label. Of course there is stateside love for major releases from Split Enz/Crowded House, but influential giants like The Clean, The Bats, The Chills, and others have come from that island pop mecca for decades with essentially zero airplay. Across the water in Australia, the powerpop genre has been huge for years. I know about a few gems, like the aforementioned Hoodoo Gurus, genius popsters The Go-Betweens and the utterly obscure Loaded Dice. I love The Cannanes and found them to be utterly charming in person. Like a few bands we have listed, they are not always strictly powerpop.

Scotland is loaded for bear when it comes to pop. There are the obvious ones like the Bay City Rollers, Teenage Fanclub and perhaps the definition would stretch to include the Sensational Alex Harvey Band or even Simple Minds. Still, not nearly enough people appreciate the efforts of their scene. I suppose that The Vaselines, Orange Juice, The Bluebells and The Pastels are already household words, but certainly not in a musical context. Not to leave England out, I will add The Dentists to a growing U.K. pile.

I remember hearing Bob Mould's project, Sugar tear through a blistering cover of Cheap Trick's "Surrender" live years ago. He had Anton Fier on the drums and that guy pummels. I love some of Fier's production work, as well as his time with The Feelies. Who could forget The Golden Palominos cover of "Omaha" by Moby Grape? Damn. My ears rang for days after that show. I will get some sleep now.

What do most power pop bands have in common? No airplay at all. All hail payola, the "study group" and the multi-national media empires. Pop is dead. Long live pop. :0)

Ah "Sequel"!

One of my cherished possessions is my 45 of "It's too Late"

Was BA involved with the band or just a fan?
As I recall he played that song a lot.

BA managed the band,.I know a lot of bands around town then ,often wondered why the Sequel song was played and their 45 was not,the answer was simple ,Sequel and "its too late" was a good hook laden song.....by the way what is the b side? Skatedate?

"by the way what is the b side? Skatedate?"

Nope.
"Make Up Your Mind"

So, Andy Brown. I don't have any Billy Nichols solo, but I do have a nice album by a band called White Horse, featuring Billy with a couple of guys from The Fifth Avenue Band. Remember them? KINK played them a lot back in the day.

Here's a new power pop gem for you all who are wondering if anyone is still doing it.

Shake Some Action. You will be amazed that one guy plays all the instruments and sings all the songs. It sounds like a perfect power pop album from the 80's or 90's. This guy is from Australia by way of Seattle. Look it up, you'll love it.

Other more recent or current favs of mine are The Mysteries of Life (ex Blake Babies), and of course Neil Finn in any combination. He's the modern master of this stuff.

Hey Littlesongs, very nice recap of the more "obscure" bands. Did you forget one of the great New Zeland bands, Tall Dwarves? Very nice, quirky stuff there.

Keep it going folks! This is so fun and such a gift. Thanks Bookemdono!

Sensational Alex Harvey Band is one I forgot that LS listed. Saw them live back in the 70's.

Billy Nichols first two solo albums has so many name musicians playing on them, the liner notes reads like a who's who. I picked them (CD reissue) up right here in town at Craig Moerer's (Recordsbymail.com) warehouse back in 1998 shortly after they were reissued (in limited amounts).

To add a postscript to the previously mentioned Go-Betweens. The late 90's saw a reunion of Robert Forster and Grant McLennan and they released three more albums as the Go-Betweens. While never reaching even the sparse commercial success of the 80's, the reunion produced 3 pretty decent cd's. The local bent to it was 2000's "Friends of Rachel Worth" was recorded in Portland with the help of members of NW band Sleater-Kinney. A couple years later they followed that up with their strongest post-reunion cd called "World's Apart." In 2006, Grant McLennan passed away way too early at the age of 48 from a heart attack. Robert Forster recently released a cd entitled "The Evangelist" that contains a song co-written by Grant and songs in tribute to him

Finally a mention of some women (besides the Bangles)!

Any more?

What about Bananarama? (Love them!)
The Go-Go's?

Letters to Cleo

Veruca Salt

Elastica

Kate Bush (man, this woman writes some bizzare music)

Breeders

Cranberries

Aimee Mann

Killing Heidi

Aimee Mann is playing with Marc Cohn in Roseburg on Tuesday

Having a great time plugging some of these into Pandora today.

Working on class prep right now. So, that's dicking with software, noting stuff --little to do with the ears, but listen. Thanks!

Don't forget to add a little Robyn Hitchcock, Fountains of Wayne, and The Futureheads (their first cd has a great cover of Kate Bush's "Hounds of Love").

I've been getting reacquainted with many of these I haven't thought of for awhile, and putting the others into Yahoo Jukebox (formerly MusicMatch) Artist Match.

My playlist that I use to run to has been getting stale.. now I'm looking forward to my 4 miles tonight!

Thanks.

Fountains of Wayne. Great call. I like them quite a bit.

My bad also, I forgot FOW.

Merkin my dear, of course we should mention The Go-Go's, that first album is power pop at it's best.

Bananarama? Not so much. A real aspect of this genre is to be able to play an instrument (preferrably guitar!) and write your own songs. They were more just "pop". Like Britney.

So here's one I think we should vote on:

Weezer: Power Pop, or Not?

Tough call.

I don't like them all that much. I think they qualify though.

Edit: Pandora seems to think so. Right after I posted, "Island in the Sun" came up. Go figure.

FOW is just great BTW. Love it. Thanks for the many artist mentions. Threads like this are just fun.

Mrs M, did 'ya sample any of the female power poppers yet? Plug a few of those into Pandora and you are gonna get some great stuff.

Is it just me?
Or does anyone else think of Fountains of Wayne when you hear the freecreditreport.com jingle?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzPkhOofXVs

Yeah, that association works for me too.

Yes, I want to know who that band is!

So, Weezer: What do we think?

PS: I say, yes.

Here's another guy who's put out some powerpop albums, totally under the radar: Bill Lloyd. From the alt-country group Foster & Lloyd. Check him out on Pandora.

I'm contemplating now another thread to start. Stay tuned right here, don't you touch that dial!

The guy in the commercial is Eric Violette
listed as Actor/Musician.
But I couldn't find out if he wrote or actally sang the jingles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQXh8W96ugw

Allrighty then! Let's all weigh in on our top 5 Power Pop Artists!

Me first:
Honorable Mention: Go Go's, Rasperries, Cheap Trick, Posies, Matthew Sweet, Todd Rundgren, XTC.
5. Marshall Crenshaw
4. The Romantics
3. Shoes
2. Sloan
1. Crowded House

Crap! I hate ranking them. It's all great!

Give us your list.

5. sequel 4.smithereens 3.maybe the most underrated musician ever Marshall Crenshaw 2. Raspberries 1. Cheap Trick who is going to the Amphitheater to see robin ,Bun. E, tom and rick????

Weezer is IN.

1. Cheap Trick
2. Romantics
3. Simple Minds
4. Smithereens
5. XTC

Was gonna put some other stuff in at #5, but I listened to some XTC tracks, and realized I just almost always am in the mood to hear them.

1. Crowded House - I cannot get enough of that dark stuff sung with so much melody.

1.5 Squeeze. Come on. Picture perfect lyrics.

2. Cheap Trick - Crunchy. It never gets old to me

3. Dandy Warhols. When they were on it, man, they were on it. ( Boys Better is forever on my iPod ). Sick. Best British band to ever come out of Portland.

4. Sloan. A band that is greater than the sum of their parts.

5. Supergrass. They wrote some hooks that cannot be beat. Tasty time changes and chord progressions.

I don't even list The Beatles. They did it all first. They win.

Honorable mention goes to Fatboy Slim. The hooks he uses give me the same feeling as power pop. Big Beat. Love it.

I gotta agree with Squeeze.

Yes, Squeeze belongs for sure. I'll make them 1.5 also. I screwed up.

On the topic of Dandy Warhols; They were (are?) not consistent enough for me. Some great tunes for sure, but not even one "A" album. And Courtney Courtney (as I like to call him) is not the most likeable pop star. It seems to me like he's more in it for being famous than the music. I've met him a couple of times, he's difficult.

It's individual tastes for sure.

I agree that much of it boils down to the Beatles, Kinks, Who and others. Powerpop is a big family with deep roots. This list is far from complete. Just off the top of my head, here are my top 5 this moment:

5. The Grifters
4. The Replacements
3. The dBs
2. Badfinger
1. Big Star

The Beauty Stab stealing from other bands with a wasted topless girl playing keys is still the Beauty Stab with a wasted topless girl. Go ahead and throw stones, but putting these overhyped no talent plagiarizing needle wranglers on the list ruins the list. Dandys Suck OK?

" Go ahead and throw stones, but putting these overhyped no talent plagiarizing needle wranglers on the list ruins the list."

Are you referring to my mentioning Fatboy Slim?

He sucks too. However, I loved the Housemartins.

No, I was referring to Portland's Pandering Warthogs.

I thought " needle wranglers " was a slam against DJ culture or something. But you were talking about drug needles, I take it.( Littlesongs, tune in. Special set just for you ).

I have no problem with DJs if they call themselves DJs. My only beef is when they act like legitimate composers instead of gifted editors.

I gotta go tune in... mmm... I love that Crowded House.

That's a proper distinction. I like the gifted editors too though. Can't help it. I just do.

Oh, I do too. Some even walk that fine line between the two camps, like Jim Fassett and Pierre Henry to Public Enemy and even the Beastie Boys et al. The distinction is important though, like the difference between the real Blues and a bunch of rich white guys filling a stadium with renderings and thefts of the original tunes.

This is a real treat CJ! You make a very compelling argument for this "Powerpopthing" as a format. This is an idea that some of us -- yourself included -- have been screaming about for decades.

Absolutely agreed.

(put this man on the radio somewhere)

It's coming. In my own way.

( Thanks though )

I knew you would get the sentiment

""Powerpopthing" as a format"

Nothing new.

http://www.powerpopradio.us/

http://www.live365.com/stations/powerpop2

http://d23radio.com/

http://seattle-powerpop.blogspot.com/

http://www.mymusicstream.com/music/powerpop.php

I will repeat myself. This is an idea that some of us -- yourself included -- have been screaming about for decades. No claim to newness or origin was implied. Can we name any broadcast outlets with the format? No.

I rest my case.

BTW, since they were brought up, I love the Tall Dwarfs. I can forgive Chris Knox for the beer commercial. For some reason, they didn't use the tune with this couplet, "Poetry's unfit. Poetry should drown itself in menstrual blood and shit."

It may be "nothing new" on the internet but it would be a "new" format to commercial radio. How many times can a city try the same old tired format focusing on the "hits" of the 60s, 70s or 80s. Now those are formats that are "nothing new", the same songs that have been on the radio for how many years now? It's no wonder ipods and mp3 players have proliferated to the extent they have. For the most part, commercial radio does in Portland does nothing more than regurgitate the same songs over and over only in slightly different packages.

"yourself included"

Not me. Not ever. Not as a format. Sure, there are new wave bands I've liked, but frankly, you can't find a large enough audience that will continue to listen to nothing but. Stations have tried and failed. The bands themselves often disband or morph into something else. Even in the heydays of the Beatles in the mid sixties, major market top 40 included more than power pop songs. In fact, some of the best power pop of the 60's was too rough for radio. That's probably still true today and one of the reasons broadcasters dismiss it and the internet is full of them.



"Can we name any broadcast outlets with the format?"

Yes. As a day part, there are plenty. Full time ... thats different.

"The phrase “Power Pop” first came up in 1966, in an interview between Pete Townshend of The Who and “Hit Parader” magazine.

But it did not become a part of the musical lexicon until the late 1970s, when peppy, hook-laden, jangly-guitar driven tunes became the latest rage on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean.

In the U.K., Nick Lowe was perfecting the “power pop” sound with his album, Pure Pop for Now People, while Stateside, Chicago was way ahead of the British curve with Cheap Trick and Pezband, and a horde of shaggy-haired groups who would soon follow.

By the early 1980s, the more generic term “New Wave” had largely replaced that of “Power Pop” in most places, except here in the Windy City, where clubs were hopping and bopping to the music of acts like –– Shoes, Kevin Lee & The Heartbeat, Gambler, The Kind, Off Broadway, U.S.S.A., and so many others.

Young “power pop” fans today who are looking for the roots of the music being played by FallOut Boy and their contemporaries, would be best to start here..."

http://www.midwestbeat.com/ezine/June%202005/power_pop.htm

There seems to about 7-8 of us here who would tune in to a purely power pop format...that's 2 more people than listen to Z100.

Well then, split the middle and make a syndicated show out of it.

I personally love those things.

There is history, influences on this artist and that, lots of differentiated eras, good sounds, and depth. Lots to like.

Hell, if they can put chill on the air, there is room for this.

No. Andy is right. It is a stupid idea. It will never pass muster with the focus group or the neckties. I thought it was fun to entertain it as a format in the context of a once free media with a once free market that was once free to choose what it wanted to play on the radio. I cannot thank you enough for setting me straight. I will no longer indulge fantasies of quality radio in this forum. Radio is dead. I get it. Music is dead too. I get it. Enjoy rattling the bones for a few pennies in the cup. I will never confuse "quality" or "artistic merit" with "marketable" again. You may now resume being far cooler than I am in the context of a dead industry, and I will go back to the thriving slum with the artists in it.

Here's how I look at it;

Look, I've been reluctant to promote my station in a " give it all you got " fashion. Mostly because, simply, I could not give it all I've got. And that shows in the programming and promotion and on down the line.

But here is the deal - I am fortunate enough to be in a situation this year and for the next couple years, to give it all I've got. Right or wrong or misplaced or just plain mistaken about who would appreciate the programming, I have the chance to give it all I've got.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when I've got nothing to lose. I don't need it to make money. I don't need it to be a voice of a community. I need to play the music that I want to play.

Salem FM. It's going to be what I want it to be.

Radio died in 1996.

Music died in the mid nineties. Somewhere around the time Kurt Cobain shot himself. Plus or minus a few years depending on how you define it. I mean really, when you look at the progress music made in the period between 1953 and 1990, and compare it to what has happened since, you would be hard pressed to come up with an argument that music is growing vertically at anywhere near the rate it has in that period before so cited. Music began growing horizontally in the mid 90's ala internet, but simultaneously the consolidation of broadcast ownership further doused the flames of quality and originality. So LS's sarcasm is pretty accurate. BTW The artists, the true artists, always have to start in the "slums." Powerpop's one hit wonders are too numerous to list, but that's all they were. One hit and out. Live by the hit, die by the hit. You can't build a serious following with just that, can you?

Perhaps not. But you can play enough of it to make people appreciate the effort and notice the difference. And that can have a positive effect on all sorts of levels.

Radio died in 1996.

You got that one right ANDY! Clear Channel killed top 40 radio and their awful playlists. If Radio wasn't taken over and consolidated by a few companies than you wouldn't be hearing the shit that is played on Top 40 stations today. Top 40 might actually be listenable. Im curios what top 40 would sound like today if the stations playlists were'nt consolidated?

As for one hit wonders, I think that Jimi Hendrix would suffer greatly if his airplay was defined by the songs he charted. Bob Dylan too. We make a few concessions to those who have been heralded for decades, but there is little wiggle room for anyone shy of universal legendary status. That kind of thinking is lazy, stupid, lazy, shortsighted, lazy, corporate and these low wage days, normal. Beyond the obviously fabricated pop acts, many bands spent a lifetime in obscurity before being "found" right under everyone's nose. The Beatles had been rejected by every label except a little EMI subsidiary. They had records out, almost seven years of playing together and countless nights of thankless audiences before they were the "new" thing in 1962.

I disagree that all music died in the mid nineties. At that point, major labels had been out to lunch forever. They still do not want to take chances on developing new talent. Stealing away a few long in the tooth indie acts every few years does not a revolution make. So, mainstream music has died a little bit for a long long time. When music by minorities was commandeered and reinterpreted at a profit, it died. When major labels gained complete control of airplay, it died. When funk was bleached out, called "Disco" and taken over by pale Australians, it died. When stars were murdered by labels and widows-to-be for long term gain, it died. When local radio was tossed aside for central programming, it died. These were all symptoms of a deadly disease.

Nothing grows greener than the lawn in a cemetery. Outside of the field of view, music is thriving and pushing boundaries. However, many artists are making art that is not for sharing on a mass scale. They do it for love, not a commodity. Some acts are even going as far as to sabotage their work to keep it out of the public eye. Some are staying tethered to technical limitations below the industry standard to keep it small. Some refuse to promote it beyond their community. Notoriety and fame are a deadly plague. It has killed, maimed or wounded thousands of artists. Few folks with any real connection to what they do are interested in stardom. There will always be panderers willing to wriggle on the couch, or hype their wares, but most artists I know are not interested in being famous at all.

Perhaps it is because of what they have seen. I will skip the many regional acts who ended up owing their label money, or losing a family to tours, and go straight to the tragedies. Folks I have met in our tiny town who tasted the poison of fame include a sweet young woman who poured a can of gasoline over herself and lit a match, a widely celebrated songwriter who repeatedly stabbed himself in the chest, a dedicated fan who took all of her pills and went to sleep, and a group of earnest kids who wrecked their van on a sleepless drive through the Siskiyous. I am only naming a handful. To equate fame with anything more than brand recognition, pressure and alienation is dangerous and stupid. To some, these folks were the lucky ones, but I disagree. They were just bones in the mill.

Nobody wants to acknowledge death is a part of the cost benefit analysis in entertainment. David Geffen is a very rich man with two very rich widows as friends. War and showbiz create far more victims than heroes. Ironic, since both activities are supposed to set us free, unite us, lift us up and bring us a better world. Both activities kill the young and preserve a perverse and false vision of who they were and what could have been. Both ventures are tightly controlled by people who cannot play a single note or shoot straight. Both pursuits are ancient and once held high honor. There is none of that spirit left in the movers of masses. So, yes, in that way, we are all dead.

As individuals, however, we are all very much alive. This is why we like this and that, but radio will not play it. They would rather deny the wants of the individual and prescribe what is "fit" to listen to, or watch or read. That is enforced artistic stagnation, and a sure sign that our empire is coming to an end. Or, at least entertainment as we know it. Salem-FM might just be a niche, but it is a very good one.

Radio was still creative in the early 90's. The Beat, NRK, etc. Lester and I were hangin in MMDocket 90-418 from '89 to '98 when Clear Channel added our horse to be (105.9) to their stable. How? They had the deepest pockets and the Reform Act gave them the opportunity. At the same time, the market ownership list went from 15 FM's with 15 owners to 16 FM's with 4 owners. Ouch. What do you expect? Radio is a commodity not a media service and certainly no longer a "free media in a free market" like LS states. Fact is, radio never was. More diverse, yes. Free? No. Neither was music. Music for art's sake, sure. Music for business' sake, never. Free? No one handed me my 45's of Charlie Brown by the Coasters for free. I had to buy it. Sure radio is free to consume, if you can afford a radio to listen on. This is capitalistic America. Nothing is free. Even NCE's have to raise operating money and pay fees unless they are lucky enough to be owned by a deep endowment willing to just keep writing checks. Internet may be the new frontier, but without major marketing dollars and a budget to support the bandwidth you will consume as you grow (like paying for every new listener, another ouch), you are the proverbial grain of sand on the beach. Go to audiorealm and go to the last page of stations and scroll backwards. Hundreds of streams with no listeners, one listener, two listeners ... and those are probably spyders and not even real listeners. I already know several streamers that have jumped in and out because they got tired of supporting their need to, as CJ puts it, "play what I want to play." Again, don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger. The more autonomy you want in the world, the options are cough up the money for your whims or move to a shack in Idaho and dig a well.

Markets can be created as well as served, where some vacuum exists.

The way I see it, big commercial radio is blind to those markets that can be created, and only wants to serve those that exist, for the lowest cost possible. Additionally, because this is the preferred model, it makes a lot of sense to downplay the potential new ones.

Why?

Because those would increase competition and set new expectations.

Those things represent cost and risk --the two things big scale business likes the least.

There is a clear content vacuum out there. No doubt about it. If there wasn't, new media efforts wouldn't be seeing the success they are. It's also possible to point to a growing body of creative commons and or independent music out there, user produced shows, both syndicated and just Salem FM, types as an indicator that both creators and consumers are looking for more new, not more repurposing.

What CJ wrote above is part of making a market. Perhaps it's not viable to make this a format where it all stands alone. I think it's totally possible to add value with it, and adding value is key to getting returns that can be used for bigger and better things.

Otherwise, it's a race to the bottom, keeping expectations marginalized, and competetion means who can do the best deals in the board room.

Radio, and audio media in general has a lot of upsides and a lot of potential. It's absolutely ripe for some disruptive technology / process innovation.

I hear "radio sucks", "it's all the same", etc... a lot.

Truth is, that medium that is radio simply does not suck! It's still quite potent, and has strengths that are differentiated enough from the other options to make it viable and relevant for a long time to come.

I've seen absolutely nothing that suggests otherwise.

Sometimes I feel as if the idea is that this is as good as it gets is out there, just as an excuse to keep risk low to keep shareholders happy and markets consistent, leaving the big players to just play their game the way they want to play it.

When I talk with people though, the ideas that get bounced around are numerous enough to convince me that this just isn't as good as it gets, and I think I've stated why.

What CJ wrote above about appreciating the difference is core to delivering "cool" --that thing we've all talked about that only comes from people trying hard to take that open door others give them into their minds and do something with it that's worth keeping the door open for.

It's mind to mind contact, and with it comes the same kinds of bonds that cause people to be attracted to or entertained by other people.

Computers, spreadsheets, lists, sorts, and other such mechanical, not sentient things, are not the be all end all. Perfecting that stuff just builds a venue.

I don't think many people see that. I also could be wrong and would absolutely love that discussion too.

Once that stuff is up, running and solid, then you've got a playground where people can express, create and introduce the cool to other people in a fashion that's time well spent.

Oh well, rant off.

Love the tunes on the thread. It's been a fun one.

BTW: I will listen to CJ, and entertain a lot of music I wouldn't otherwise. Often it's pretty great. Other times it isn't so great, but it's still got some value.

Why?

Because I KNOW CJ, and that connection is enough to carry me through the bad parts, looking for the better ones. There is story there, drama there, --another person there, that I share something in common with; namely, when we both are connected via the streaming audio, we are both looking to be a little less board than we would be otherwise.

Looking back at radio, pre-Internet and pre-consolidation, that's core. That IS radio, with the rest being technical enabling technologies that in and of themselves improve the ability to add value, not are the value.

Guess it isn't rant off...

In this connected age, it's possible to interact with people, get to know people, grok people at a cost that's really low.

I've written before about the loop being open or closed. We can close the loop more easily now, meaning we should be entertaining far more loops!

With a loop being one mind connected to another, with some exchange possible both ways. The exchange does not have to happen for the energy and the value to be there, but it's got to be possible for it to happen.

When we put a computer, or a very controlling set of humans executing strict rules (which for this discussion are one and the same), between the minds, the loop is VERY difficult to close! It's hard to see what the other mind was doing, so even if we have lots of feedback in terms of IM, e-mail, phones, it does not mean all that much.

By contrast, those same people, empowering others to express themselves gets us connected mind to mind, and that's always interesting like people are always interesting!

That's what more free times in radio were all about, and everybody knows it, or we would just have all moved on and would not be bitching about it.

So then, being able to attract a loyal and regular following is not so much about the core content elements used. ie: power pop It's more about how the people use them to express "cool". It's about story, drama, humor, pain, emotion, state. All of those things are people things, not format things, not computer things.

Of course, the real bitch is that this stuff is harder to scale, but can be scaled. It's just a bit more money and a bit more risky, which is really the same thing.

No, the bitch is that if we actually let that happen, then big commercial business will find that really the people are the value and not them, and that's just not ok, for a lot of reasons I suspect are well known, but not talked about.

Going back then to the original statement, creating markets then can be done by people, who have the theory of mind necessary to see how putting core elements together might entice other people's interest.

Serving a market is just delivering to people what they say they want to hear. This has to be done, of course, but it's not the only option.

Again, Why?

Think hard about why people want to hear stuff! Where do they get the idea to even ask for it?

That's right. Sombody just played it for them, or they heard it, or a friend told them about it, or some other damn thing.

How the heck are they gonna ask, if we don't have a certian percentage of our efforts aimed directly at introducing them to new things?

That's creating markets, and that's where commercial radio is failing big.


Ok, rant off now.

There are solid thoughts in these tangents, along with the rants. I am not picking on you Andy, really. I am glad you took my sarcasm as it was intended. I also do not want to single anyone out for my venom. There are some really great folks in local radio. Homogeny is not the fault of individuals nearly as much as "groupthink" on a corporate level.

It is obvious to most music loving people that college, community and public radio stations are the only places to hear new acts, or unheralded and widely influential artists. They cater to music that often goes unheard outside of their airwaves. Now, I can accept that part of it. Some folks are not gonna be huge stars. Cool. However, the part where large corporations use the medium, the colleges and communities that pay for the stations, the tens of thousands of volunteers who run the outlets and the hundreds of indie labels and many thousands of acts that support the programming as a "minor league" for music is not acceptable.

Why? Because the huge media conglomerates take research, talent development and promotion without any compensation. In that way, they use a largely non-profit sector for their own profit. In other words, a check to OPB or KBOO might as well be made out to Sony/BMG. I think this is utterly ridiculous. If they want to have a minor league, they should pay for it. Major League Baseball has many farm teams paid for by big clubs and they do not expect to be able to pluck the best ballplayers without paying for the process.

If a sports team develops a talent, they are compensated for the effort with a trade of cash or another ballplayer. If an independent laboratory invents something, they are compensated by those who license their idea or buy it outright. Major labels, however, pay these A&R types to bring them finished product, and these A&R types are often lazy workers. Rather than try to actually find an artist, they skim CMJ and go to a cattle drive like SXSW. Even then, it is more about the free beer and feckless groupies than an earnest desire to expose a potential diamond in the rough or bring out the best in an up and coming talent.

There is also the vulture effect. For instance, the oft heralded Sub Pop label was driven to bankruptcy, and only then did DGC swoop in for Nirvana. Oh gosh Mr. Geffen, we are soooo grateful for saving the Seattle scene. Around that time, SST was in the same position, so DGC licensed some of their back catalog including Sonic Youth. He sure left them to dangle in the wind when the greedy yobs in U2 went after Negativland and drove the company to the brink.

Often, to major labels, even talent is irrelevant. Especially when the market is so tightly controlled. So, they train monkeys like Britney or the Backstreet Boys to do it all, and do it all on cue. An A&R man is supposed to be like a baseball scout. Imagine an American Idol type show that found our greatest ballplayers, rather than having talents discovered, honed and developed over decades of performance, observation and practice. If MLB had the same business model as the record industry, they would fail miserably too.

I love Rock-n-Roll, so put another dime in the jukebox, Baby.

The closest one could get to hearing alot of "powerpop" would be "little stevens underground Garage" the best two hours on radio ANYWHERE.................

No ranting, no raving, just a nice little pile of...

Badfinger

Baby Blue
Bad Tough Luck Girl
Believe Me
Believe Me
Better Days
Better Days
Carry On Till Tomorrow (intro)
Carry On Till Tomorrow
Come And Get It
Come And Get It
Come And Get It
Come And Get It
Day After Day
Day After Day
Down
Hold On
Lookout California
Lookout California
Lost Inside Your Love
Love Is Gonna Come At Last
Maybe Tomorrow
Medley
No Matter What
No Matter What
No Matter What
Shine On
Suitcase
Suitcase
Sweet Tuesday Morning
Take It All
Winner
Without You

...for now.

Oh my, boys, I leave for a couple of days, and you get all up in your faces!

Powerpop radio would get an audience, just not huge numbers. But look at the numbers for radio now; they aren't huge. It's niche programming now. So it's as viable a format as say, AM sports talk, right?

I'll tune into Chickenjuggler and be happy.

I had no idea such a seemingly innocent topic would engender such passionate discourse. But, that's what makes PDXradio forum so great!

PS: Saw a great LOCAL powerpop band last Thursday;

Throwback Suburbia. Check them out on the Myspace. Or, throwbacksurburia.com

Wonderful stuff.

You mean:

http://www.throwbacksuburbia.com/

JESUS CHRIST TEMPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!! MY GOD!

Sorry, I'm done now! Have a good one people!

It's like a bad car accident, I knew it was bad, but I still HAD to look! And laugh. Again.

It's killing me Dark! That'll teach us to just go clicking on stuff for a good long time! You just dished 'em right out too. Nailed everybody at least once. Nice job! Nobody would expect you to just keep on linking.

Hyperlink anxiety at it's finest! You know you want to click it, pretty much are gonna click it, and THERE IT IS.

I have more to say on this topic of Powerpop and commercial viability as a format and hobbies and finding connections through music like this. But I am sleeptyping on Ambien ( an undeclared side-effect...I may sue ).

I had about 9 inches of text typed out just now.

Nope.

Deleted.

You'll know when I'm really ready. Heck, you'd all better be ready too. I'm counting on each of you to come to the station and record a set of at least an hour of your favorites so it can be aired. Kind of like KBOO but without the jarring show changes. Plenty of range and depth. We'll make it all fit just fine. Promise.

Hey Temper, I was just joking! I think it still is funny as hell!