Littlesongs and Chris Taylor seem to have fallen off the edge of the earth in the last few weeks. I remember that Littlesongs made a comment about getting fed up, but I didn't think that he was done with the entire message board.

Are you actually surprised. The constant personal attacks and personal insults that are posted repeatedly are indicating a significant drop in the intelligence level of the forum.

People are no longer attacking viewpoints, they're attacking people with insulting commentary.

You want some examples, just look at some of Andy Brown or Vitalogy's attacks on me personally. I don't happen to be bothered by them as I simply consider the source, but others get tired of reading them.

You weren't attacked by me; facts were pointed out. You just happen to disagree with the facts.

To be honest, since the constant religion and god talk has all but disappeared, I think the entire forum is at a benefit. It allows us to focus on more stuff that can actually have debates involving FACTS.

It's summer time, and I know both contributors do take their time away to do what they do.

Little made it clear the support of racism and bigotry was a problem for him.

Chris, is just doing what Chris does. Probably busy.

I'm here to talk about God if you all want to (wink) really it's been a good tone of change lately here on the politics side but enjoy all discussion...also missing Herb too lately...but sounds like he comes and goes.

"...I don't happen to be bothered by them (the so-called "attacks")..."

Then why bring it up?

"...but others get tired of reading them."

Not me, arrogant (insert your own word here) old man!

Once or twice a year it seems someone starts remarking about the demise of this side of PDXradio. What you're seeing is par for the course. People come, people go. Others call it the end of the world.

Come back next Summer Deane. It'll be all Obama this or Obama that. You've let the doggone worst President of all time lead you into thinking this is a liberal board.

I'm already pissed at him for FISA.

Maybe he's right about that, but I don't really think so. I believe Obama made the wrong move there. He still has my vote as the better of the choices, but I've absolutely no problem with calling that puss out on FISA what it is.

Democrats in general are still driven by a lot of political fear and it just sucks. In a change election, crystal clear differentiation is what people need to see, and they aren't seeing it on a lot of this crap that matters.

Perhaps this administration, through it's abuse of FISA, has some serious dirt. Maybe that's something we will see when Obama gets a shot at it --if he gets a shot at it, I guess is the right way to put that.

If so, it will explain a lot and I'll deal. If not, then WTF!! Where did rule of law, statesmanship and in many cases, just core common sense go? Maybe it's in the water...



Deane, intelligence levels don't just drop, without some serious event being linked to the drop.

That's stuff like trauma, drugs, extreme treatment, torture, age, disease, etc... That has not happened to the community en masse, so let's just call that a dodge, be up front about it and move on from there?

With me? Not sure? Well, let's nail it down then this time with some greater precision!

There is a difference between calling somebody out on some personal character flaw because it's seen as an actual flaw with said flaw being either:

1. a supporting point of the argument being made and where the argument itself is a rational one

, or

2. is the actual point being made for the purpose of enlightenment ie:

"Hey, I noted this position as being a bigoted one, what's with that? Are you sure you want to defend bigotry?"

, and

just calling somebody out because there is some gain to be had in doing so, with said gain not being supportive of the argument being put forth.

The latter is ad hominiem, (however you spell it) and is a known fallacy, safely ignored.

The former is robust discussion. If it hurts, well that's the founders American dynamics in play right there. Either come to terms with it, or consider addressing it, or rebut it and come out clean.

This is one of the reasons why we have a first amendment!

Failure to differentiate these is just a dodge.

Need I post the list again?

This dodge is on there, been on there, been discussed before and is known valid. So, why even bother with it? You know it's a dodge, I know it's a dodge, and everybody who has read this site even semi-regularly knows it's a dodge.

Who exactly are you fooling?

safety tip: It's you Deane, nobody else! Think about the implications of that. They are serious you know. Too many of these and you make your mind feeble as too much of it's potential is spent managing self-lies and external lies to others instead of actually reasoning as it should. For each one of these, the mind is then divided into that segment that has to deal with the lie and the rest of the mind, healthy and capable.

It would be better actually to just step up and defend whatever it is, and have a pair about it. That's respectable, if misguided in the end. At least it shows some backbone. And it's mentally more healthy as there are no self-lies, cutting the loss of potential significantly.

Put very simply, from where I stand, I see you considerably more cranky about what you see in the online mirror each day, and rather than own up to that, you prefer to shift it to anything other than the source of the trouble; namely, you.

Been there man. I really have. I'll bet I'm there again too before it's over. Sucks, but that's part of being human. So don't take this post as a holier than thou post, because that is not my point at all.

Instead, know I post it in the nicest of ways, one person to another, just holding up the mirror for you, knowing you can't do it for yourself as none of us can, hoping it empowers you to do some good.

My mirror has flaws, wrinkles and cracks too. I know it, and with that knowing comes my strong recommendation that you look in several to get the best picture you can.

From there, either you are ok with that, or you are not. Your call. Don't put that on anybody else. That's just another self-lie, and you know the drill on that.

"Little made it clear the support of racism and bigotry was a problem for him."

Thanks Missing. It is exactly why I needed a break.

I am very happy to see you, my friend

Same here.

I trust your time has been good?

Great to see you too EN!

Missing, I had some fun, but mostly it has been busy. :0)

I miss Chris too.