http://mentalhealthportland.wordpress.com/2008/08/20/3-oregon-college-presidents -want-drinking-age-lowered-to-18/

"They believe that the legal drinking age simply doesn’t work and that college students will drink no matter what. They said they’ll do so more dangerously when it’s illegal."


I agree, kids want what they can't have, PLAIN AND SIMPLE! Its the forbidden fruit! You forbid something from them, they are going to want it even more!
When I went to college you could sure tell which students had very strict parents and FORBID them to drink because THOSE were the ones that would get COMPLETELY SHIT FACED! I'm talking about blacking out, falling down drunk, and it was usually the underage kids or kids who had extremely strict parents growing up and never had a sip of alcohol when they were little.

It should have been 25, all along! Of course, this may be a little like saying that Abraham Lincoln shouldn't have freed the slaves but rather sent them back to Africa!

I heard that they are trying to raise the drinking age to 28 in Arkansas to try to keep some of the alcohol out of the high schools!!!

We need to sincerly and honestly look to other industrialized nations whose drinking age is 18 and see how those countries are handling and or not handling issues of both abuse but also treatment when it regards to those under the age of say 25.

I am personally all for a drinking age of 18 but we also do need to do the research to understand what the impact will be.

Possibly on an initial rollout make it so that the only 18-21 population that can purchase and or consume legally be US military servicemen/women.

I would support the drinking age being at 18. If you're old enough to vote and die for your country, you're old enough to have a drink.

Drinking age of 19 at the lowest. We seriously need to keep legal drinking outside of high schools (even in AK Skybill! )

Alaska?

Did you mean AR?

It's almost time to put the 'ol work brain back in, Edsel. One more week!

I could see that there might be problems with the transition to a drinking age of 18 if the change is made too suddenly. Perhaps, there should be a gradual transition to a drinking age of 18. For instance, the legal age to purchase alcoholic beverages could stay 21 while the age at which it is legal to drink alcoholic beverages could be scaled back gradually. Then the age to purchase could be scaled back with some possible restrictions.

Read about this in the Oregonian and Willamette Week.

IMO, moot issue. More important things to deal with.

However, I'm going to forecast that if the age were lowered, mass parties would be the immediate result, possibly egged on by "12:01 AM alcohol sales" on the first day of the age rollback.

A bunch of them would get drunk, and undoubtedly someone will run in front of a car, bus, semi, train, etc., thereby destroying the rest of the partygoers' perception of alcohol altogether for good. Don't think it would result in them demanding to raise the drinking age again, but they'd probably have a much better understanding of it then.

My advise to the at risk kids I rub shoulders with weekly is to just stay away from the stuff and the people who encourage you to drink...causes lots less drama/life headaches. I know to some thats "pie in the sky" mentality but for most kids/teens that drink...there's gonna be something bad or worse happen because of it.

Can we be a society that can discourage drinking as much as we do smoking? Just asking...

How about we be a society where education about these things is first and foremost? How about we be a society where people, who get into trouble with these things are given help and not jailed and turned into less potential people?

I don't think we need to discourage drinking. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a nice drink. Frankly, nothing wrong with smoking a cigar or pot, or even making a bit of poppy tea on a cold night.

The problem is abuse.

The key elements that drive abuse are:

-lack of education

-lack of support

-way too many social taboos

-lack of controls on substances

-lack of availability (on some things)

-criminalization that does not impact the problem.

These things combine to form:

-black markets where these kinds of things are not well regulated and people are taken advantage of

-ignorance leading to experimentation and that leads to trouble

-inability to seek help without stigma.

(there are others)

So then, if we recognize that abuse and not mere consumption is the problem, we can then craft laws and establish social norms that help people get educated and make solid choices, not poor choices.

With this also comes far less aggressive criminalization of things, meaning we then focus on helping people instead of dooming them for wanting to have a good time.

Like so much of the other crap I hear, just telling people "to stay away from the stuff" doesn't cut it. WHY do we stay away from the stuff?

Guess what?

A big part of the WHY happens to be draconian policies from that fraction of us hell bent on way to much control over the rest of us, that's why.

Another big part of the WHY surrounds a LOT of general ignorance about these things and the various taboos and criminalization going on only contributes to these things.

It's an ugly cycle, and I am all for breaking it huge.

Yes, I will have a drink. I have and very likely will again have some tea, or a smoke and sit in my living room and listen to some great music and THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH ANY OF THAT WHATSOEVER.

And if that becomes a problem, I know plenty of liberal people, perfectly willing to help me on it, call me on it, educate me on it and that's what makes it a NON ISSUE.

So, let's get real about what the problems are instead of just doing the Douglas Adams "peril sensitive sunglasses" shelter them in the hopes they won't ask too many questions bit.

Sheesh.

To answer the thread, no. I think the drinking age needs to be where it is until we grow up some as a society.

For general population ages 18-20 maybe the transistion needs to be bar/club/restaurant sales only. With a restriction until 21 until you can purchase from a liqour store to prevent the large unsupervised party atmosphere.

It is though when it comes down to it a very tough issue to deal with. Education ultimately is the key!

> For general population ages 18-20 maybe the transistion needs to be bar/club/restaurant sales
> only.

When I wrote my previous post, I was struggling with what the proposed restrictions for the 18-20 crowd should be. I think that the "bar/club/restaurant" idea is pretty reasonable because of these are supervised environments. The operators of the bar or restaurant have the option of cutting off any customer who becomes noticeably intoxicated. It would be in their best interest to prevent teenagers from getting smashed for a variety of reasons, such as annoyance to other patrons, legal liability, and risk of property damage. Furthermore, if a bar or restaurant does not wish to serve alcohol at all to those under 21, I think that they should reserve the right to do so.

Missing_kskd wrote one of the best surprise endings to a post that I have seen on this board for quite some time!

P.S.: Here is a country-by-country breakdown of legal drinking age:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age

Note that in many countries, the age at which it is legal to drink alcoholic beverages is lower than the legal purchasing age. In some of these countries, the intent is to allow young people to consume small amounts of alcohol in controlled family settings, such as having wine with dinner.

I grew up sitting at the bar with my father, had a mother who was vile when she was drunk, lived in a state where 3.2 beer was legal at 18 and turned out fine. Some people won't but raising it didn't make people more responsible plenty 15-20s get hammered just fer fun..........

My great grandparents were tavern owners, my father and I also were in the business for a short period.

The U.S. had varied drinking age laws during the 1970's. The entire west coast remained at 21, but you only needed to drive to Idaho to buy at 19. This created major problems, especially in Eastern Washington, where 19 & 20 year olds would drive to drink. One of the arguments to make the nation 21 was to fill in these gaps where people drove across state lines to buy.

I would oppose any situation where there would be varied laws. Either 21 or 18, but nationwide.

Examine what is the average age of High School seniors at the age of graduation. Some 18 year olds are HS seniors. Maybe 19 is a more proper age.

But it keep coming back in my mind to the old enough to vote, old enough to die for your country, and old enough for law to consider you as a legal adult at the age of 18.

Maybe also though laws need to be changed also in terms of the current crisis with energy we are dealing with that the driving age also needs to be raised to 18. Off topic but something to also think about.

Seems as though a universal age/right of passage would overall be more appropriate for the future that awaits this country.

Maybe they should raise the age for EVERYTHING to 25: drinking, smoking, military service, age of consent, (presently)illegal drugs and have your parents responsible for you until that age. Imagine, knowing all these things will be possible when you reach the age of 25! Then, when you get there, it isn't so important anymore.

Maybe they should raise the age for EVERYTHING to 25...
You want to raise voting to 25?!

...have your parents responsible for you until that age.
Have to remember that the highly opinionated parents with the most one-sided views pass these views onto their children. That's an additional 7 years of the sheltered kids being sheltered, etc.

For a country that has an alcohol-fueled 9/11 every three weeks, we have NO BUSINESS thinking about lowering the drinking age.

Not until we get a handle on the drunk driving idiots of legal age should we think of anything else.

"Did you mean AR? It's almost time to put the 'ol work brain back in, Edsel. One more week!"

I even put a second of thought into that, and still screwed it up. I obviously don't have many pen pals in either of those states.

But school does start in a couple weeks, and it is soooo hard to get my brain back in gear. I'd rather just stay home and install flooring and countertops in my kitchen. Productivity without a lot of taxing brainwork, ahhhhhh!

That's gotta be tough after a long break!

I strongly agree with the uniform law, BTW. We did have lots of trouble with that one that we didn't need to have.

Some drinking can happen earlier than 21, but it's supervised. I think it's best this way as the parent has a chance to educate and it happens in a controlled setting.

(that's how I handled it anyway and the results were good from what I can tell of the older kids so far)

Basically, there is this time where the kids want to try it. I believe they are absolutely gonna try it --like I tried it and probably everybody here tried it.

So, I made that happen. I set the age at 15. Before that time, they get nothing. After that time, if they want, I'll sit them down, make sure everything is ok and they can just go ahead and try it.

Frankly, I make them really, really try it and we all know what that means!

It's a totally valuable object lesson to talk about how booze works on about an hour time delay. So, drink a little and about an hour later you get a nice buzz.

Drink through until you feel it, and you are already cooked.

They don't believe until hour two.

Then they understand that perfectly and it's some care after that until they finish "renting" the booze.

Out of 4, one absolutely hated it, does not drink. Another likes it, but is controlled. The other two didn't really try it, and probably were impacted by seeing the one that did!

Maybe that's kind of rough, but it's a known deal, I establish the ability to talk and help them through and it break the taboo so there really are no secrets.

(everybody can tell, so it's very difficult to just sneak)

Over time, I've gotten a request or two for a light drink and I ask why. If the reasons are honest and the scenario warrants it, I'm inclined to entertain that AT HOME.

The mystique is gone, leaving solid reasons and they know it and I know it.

Contrast that to my first experience! It was not at home, not controlled, involved cars, girls, and other dangerous stuff! Total mess and I had nobody to talk to about it, leaving my fate to whatever I happened to learn quick enough at the time.

(which was not all that much)

After watching 6 of my peers end their lives their senior year of HS, that impacted me as a parent. I swore that no kid of mine was gonna be peer-pressured into one of those scenarios.

The mystique of it all is one of the most potent closers that enable the peer pressure to have an impact. Take that away and now you've got informed kids, who can very easily say, "that would be stupid".

That's the holy grail folks, as far as I am concerned.

Bad call?

Don't know.

Lowering the age would deny parents this at a time where they really need to have it. I believe this would be a mistake and these experiences, observations and choices are the basis for my position on not lowering the thing until society as a whole grows up a little.

At the least, knowing how the stuff works is an absolute requirement to a given person making solid choices. I don't see how that can happen safely, without doing something like this. It might happen on it's own, but that's not something I feel good about leaving to chance.

The most common alternative is to just paint the whole scene as bad and something to be avoided and here's the rub on that:

Just how long will dogma trump curiosity at that age?

Think about it.




Now that you have, know for me, it was about 2 years. Peer pressure and opportunity won out!

Take away the curiosity, and now you've got dogma (if you want to) and understanding -vs- peer pressure and opportunity. Much better equation, IMHO.

One very important value that I think needs to be taught in the teen years about alcohol is that under no circumstance do you get into a vehicle where you are the driver who has had even one drink and or the driver as well. Emphasize that you can always walk and or take public transit, call for a ride even if at odd hours, or to always have the number to a reliable cab company programmed into your cell phone.

Unfortunately if that value is not taught at a very young age it will most likely lead to risky and or deadly consequences later in life.

My oldest brother does not drive under any circumstance after just one alcoholic beverage. Unfortunately its ok for him to get into a car when someone else is the driver regardless of whether they are designated or not.

Also don't be that person at a function or party to say to another that maybe they shouldn't drive because they have been drinking if it is your own intention to drive your own drinking self home later that night.

You either make the choice or you don't but don't under any circumstance push this on other people unless your going to abide by this yourself.

We are all probally guilty of it on more than one occasion if we drink.

"Oh I will be fine" and then jokingly and sometimes seriously say "Its ok I have a get out of jail free card"! Bullshit!!