http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1836909,00.html

Some great answers:

"Read it in my books."

"I don't know what you're talking about."

"We don't discuss our sons."

Andrew

Maybe it's all above his pay grade...

All McCain can do is smear Obama. He has no platform, no plans, no vision. Every single ad on TV is negative. I can't wait to see how negative their convention will be.

"Elect me because Obama sucks"

I'm John McCain and I approve of this shitty ad.

I beg to differ, McCain does indeed have plenty of "Big Oil" platforms to stand on! And as far as his campaign, see: "Bush".

Hey Broadway,

What is it about John McCain that draws you to him?

Has anyone heard that Obama might come into the stadium tonight on a donkey or rise up from the platform...heard both entree possibilities...adding to his superstar image?

"What is it about John McCain that draws you to him?"

Or is it just that you're Christian values mandate that you hate Obama?

>>you're Christian values mandate that you hate Obama

not Christian to hate and don't hate him...just disagree with idealogy...not total McCain fan but would vote for him subject to upcoming VP announcment....

And what about his ideology do you disagree with?

The republicans are making a big deal out of tonight's stadium speech because they know their candidate can't even fill a convenience store frozen food aisle.

>>his ideology do you disagree

except for his emphasis on the poor about most of it...especially his views on abortion, the most radical/extreme record ever.

I assumed it was the abortion issue.

So the abortion issue overides McCains emphasis on the rich for you?

>>McCains emphasis on the rich

don't see it...

"don't see it..."
You ought to look into it.

I have a hypothetical for you.
Suppose your dreams come true and Roe v. Wade is overturned today.
What changes tomorrow?

Employers have cut jobs every month this year and wage growth is trailing inflation. Voting for another Republican promising to continue Bush economics is clearly non-sequitur not only for that reason, but for many more including but not limited to:

McCain does not understand the war on terror. He doesn't understand who the players are, what their agendas are, and what the solutions even look like. We don't need another Rambo in the White House.

McCain does not understand the economy. Not only does he not even keep track of his own wealth, not only does he admit that he doesn't know much about economics, not only is his economic advisor Phill Gramm, one of the most unliked politicians of our times but also McCain can't keep his opinions consistent. Within the period of one week, McCain has been quoted as saying “I don’t believe we’re headed into a recession,” he said, “I believe the fundamentals of this economy are strong and I believe they will remain strong.”

In the course of seven days, McCain appears to have reversed course, offering his own stimulus package:

“The fact is we have some tough times ahead,” McCain told supporters in Columbia. But he said the U.S. economy will rebound. “We will get through this rough patch,” he said.

And then back again to his first quote the next time the subject came up.

Senility? Stupidity? ?

McCain represents everything that is wrong with politics today.
Obama may not be perfect, but he is a whole heck of a lot smarter than McCain is. McCain has vacated every decent position he ever had. McCain has traded in his maverick status in order to endear the Republican right, and pending his choice for VP may still not get their votes in huge numbers.

You might be happy with life and your income at this moment in time, but don't think you are immune to the Republican wrecking ball wreaking havoc with the American economy. If you don't have about one million dollars per twenty years left in your lifetime, you are not secure.

Nothing is more amusing to me than blind allegiance to stupidity. It really shows how far this country has declined under Republican leadership. In the last eight years the GOP has had the chance to implement just about every policy and plan they've been squawking about for years, and look at the mess this county is in domestically and overseas. Look at how we've lost allies overseas, lost economic power internationally, lost jobs at home, lost our level of military preparedness, and seen our education and health care and infrastructure systems crumble.

Voting for McCain is the option for the truly uninformed, the truly ignorant, and the most racially and religiously pugnacious among us.

>>"don't see it..."
You ought to look into it.

don't see it as in I know the idealogies of McCain and don't see a emphasis on the rich.

>>Roe v. Wade is overturned ... What changes

a new healthy respect for life in America and maybe a cure for cancer or aids might be discovered by more humans being introduced into life...such a great choice.

I love how reversing course means "Obama is right, so I better post something up so I don't look like such an ass." to the Republicans.

Dono is spot on too. It's been quite some time since we had a candidate on the Democratic side that people are just stoked over!

Normally, this is a GOP thing and this year stoic is probably a best case scenario, with many flat out annoyed.

(gotta love that, given where the Republicans have taken us)

I've watched some of the convention and just what is it with all the usual shills just pissing all over the thing and setting the framing?

I'm quite sure they won't let the Dems return the favor too.

It's not working though. The emotions are high, speeches rock, leaving the general perception of excitement high, despite the media attempts to position it otherwise.

(and that's low --go get stoked over your guy and leave ours alone --oh wait! Your guy kind of sucks. Bummer about that huh?)

Broadway, you are a tool.

Seriously!

If abortion is your "nothing else matters" issue, then all they have to do is float the idea that it can be overturned and you will gladly let the world burn so we might get the next Einstein!

Did you ever consider the next Hitler might be in the mix too?

(and this is why that position is flawed --none of us can know, leaving the mother to choose)

"a new healthy respect for life in America and maybe a cure for cancer or aids might be discovered by more humans being introduced into life...such a great choice."

That's not exactly what I was getting at.
But it was some pretty words though.

Do you imagine that abortions will stop as soon as RvW is overturned?

This is how the Republicans have worked for some time now.

Take a wedge issue. Say it's gays, god, guns, girls, greed. Now, escalate the importance of it to a point where nothing else matters, mix in the right code language laced with promises and there's your base right there.

The 23 percenters.

Everybody, who has some serious axe to grind, is given the lip service they need by the Republicans.

The cost?

Exploitation of our rights, our wealth, our environment and everything else, but that one issue.

You are there Broadway. Think about it. It's just not good.

>>Broadway, you are a tool.

I take that as a compliment...tools are good...they fix things...thanks.

Ignorance is bliss.

Feel better now?

You know that's grade school stuff Broadway.

They are using you to exploit the world for their gain. Promising you the chance to legislate morality for others.

That's not how Americans do things you know.

"tools are good...they fix things"

Clearly you aren't the least bit technically cognizant.

Tools do not fix anything.

People do.

Tools are devices implemented by people to assist in performing actions needed to construct or repair. Properly trained and educated people.

"Do you imagine that abortions will stop as soon as RvW is overturned?"

>>Tools do not fix anything. People do.

semantics...semantics...but someone said I was a tool...

>>abortions will stop as soon as RvW is overturned

no...it will take a while...like generations.

Broadway: Has anyone heard that Obama might come into the stadium tonight on a donkey or rise up from the platform...heard both entree possibilities...adding to his superstar image?

Has anyone heard that McCain may emerge from a mock-up of his cell at the Hanoi Hilton to accept the Republican Nomination?

Wouldn't it be nice if we could talk about issues instead of uttering petty smears like this?

Andrew

Roe v. Wade is already history as far as I'm concerned, assuming the current make-up of the Court does not swing more to the center. It's just a matter of time. Another right-wing justice on the Court to replace one of the more liberal justices would seal Roe v. Wade's fate.

After Roe v. Wade is overturned, then the states will be able to ban abortion again. Some states will, some states won't. Then it will get messy when states try to make laws against women leaving the state to have an abortion....

Andrew

"no...it will take a while...like generations."

OK I'll accept that, but would argue that making it illegal will never stop all abortions.

Notice how well the "War on Drugs" has worked.

As Andrew says, the battle will move to the states.
Then you've got 50 battles to go.
(maybe 49 since Knasas is pretty f***ed up already)

With that in mind, do you think you are being more effective to concentrate your efforts on the punitive as opposed to the preventative?

>>it will get messy when states try to make laws against women leaving the state to have an abortion

I agree...that will not be good

>>uttering petty smears

we will all see the grand appearance tonight...

Hey, I said tool.

Meant it too. It's not a personal slam. It's reasoned commentary on the fact that you are being sold a bill of goods by the GOP.

If McCain is elected, RvW will probably flip, but that won't end the matter as Andrew said. Then, over time, it's gonna flip again someday.

Law is not absolute.

Then there is the practical implications. Will abortion stop?

No.

And on a personal note, any woman I know can count on my support on that choice period, law or not. Many people feel the same way, which lies at the core of the bill of goods.

Getting this law flipped is worth all the other downsides Broadway?

That's essentially the question being put to you.

If you say it is, then I'll stand by my calling you out as a tool. If not, then let's talk about it rationally and see just what that value proposition really looks like.

Edit: I don't know anybody that things that promise is worth all the negatives. That's the tool part really. Only a fool would go to the mat for something they don't know will be secure in the end.

In Poker lingo: It's foolish to bet all in on a draw, unless you know you have the nuts when you hit.

If, in fact, abortion would go away in this scenario, that's a worthy discussion on worth. Problem is, we KNOW it won't go away, and that DIMINISHES the worth significantly.

You just don't know that, or can't see that, or deny that for other reasons.

>>McCains emphasis on the rich

don't see it...

Your drunk right?

Christians for McCain.

Because God loves American fetus' more than born Iraqi kids.

Broadway wrote:
except for his emphasis on the poor about most of it...especially his views on abortion, the most radical/extreme record ever.

Listen to his speech at the convention. He like Clinton believes education and not shoving your belief system on everyone is how to reduce abortions. Abortions went way down in the 1990s didn't they? It's like I say, you "christian" conservatives believe in small government ONLY when it suits you.

McCain is just another anti-abortion supporter candidate who wants to make sure that birth comes to fruition, but should the product of that birth go forth and f' up badly, then he's all in favor of lettin' 'em fry.

Broadway, what is it about abortion that has you surrendering your option of standing for anything else meaningful in this life?

Assuming for a moment that we all agree a fetus is a living being, abortion is bloody, gruesome and completely avoidable. As are DWI car deaths, suicides, most war deaths, industrial accidents, et al.

Why care about one thing and not the other? Why not pick a candidate who can do the most to spare the lives of God's children?

>>anything else meaningful

life seems to be pretty important to most all of us...without it...well...you would'nt be posting here...of course other issues are important and that's why I also volunteer weekly at my church and provide weekly meals to the homeless in my town.

>>pick a candidate who can do the most to spare the lives

Obama has voted to not care for the fully unborn baby botched from an abortion...so much for caring.

>>make sure that birth comes to fruition

oh such horrible things to do to humanity...

>>Abortions went way down in the 1990s

yes they are down but millions are still done yearly in the name of birth control/on demand/matter of convienence...a change of heart/lifestyle needs to happen...sex demands responcibility and is best in marriage for starters.

And you've still not answered the question of worth.

Let the world burn for the unborn, or not?

>>Let the world burn for the unborn, or not?

not a valid question of merit or meaning to answer.

Oh yes it is.

Basically, McCain and the GOP in general have your vote locked in because that's your shot at RvW.

They have let the world burn, yet you continue to support them. (and yes, that's an analogy for general failure to govern in a solid way)

So then, you suggest McCain is the right path going forward, and there is NOTHING that suggests he won't do the same damn thing we've been seeing for these 7+ years.

So then, is that worth it?

It's a totally valid question Broadway. Why should we endure more of the same crap for this one issue?

" >>Let the world burn for the unborn, or not?

not a valid question of merit or meaning to answer."

To whom?

Broadway, I don't know if you were lurking or not registered or it's just that my memory is wrong - but I don't think you were around when a guy named Wayne used to post here. It's not a huge deal and I can live with it, but I have to tell you that you are rotten at holding up your end of a conversation. Even the ones that you yourself start.

Wayne used to, when backed into a corner, trot out trite little quips ( " My momma always said " Don't come at me with new facts when I have already made up my mind! " It's very much like your " It's above my pay grade." [ Which, btw, you use wrong all the time. Like Herb's " Touche' " or Deane's " It's funny to watch you all get so worked up / Nobody has ever gotten the best of Ol' Deane." ] ).that were meant to distract from the fact that your position is always IMPLIED. You can't ever just say what you think or feel because #1. You are unclear about why you feel the way you feel. And #2. Having to say things, out loud, even you know sounds ridiculous and cannot be supported.

Truthiness.

So Broadway, you seem like a decent guy. And I mean that sincerely. But I wish you would try a little harder to explain some of your statements and how you got there and why you remain there. All your Charlie Brown quotes and " I'm just a simple country / caveman lawyer " and false modesty that only appears when it suits your lack of ability to reason, is, well...I just want you to know that I see through it.

Please stop.

>>Let the world burn for the unborn

not doing that now...supporting the poor and the most truly innocent among us...not a bad thing...I just don't get caught up in long explainations...too much time behind PC allready.

Then you are quite simply a waste of time.

If you are going to come here and make assertions, it's gotta be a two way street, or you really are just abusing the venue.

Tell us WHY.

If you can't do that, I'm afraid that CJ is quite right. The stuff you are IMPLYING is not self-evident. We know it, and now you know it.

>>it's gotta be a two way street, or you really are just abusing the venue.

show me the rule book and I'll abide...I just don't see how hard it is to understand that the most innocent among us...the unborn...should be chosen to live...no implicatons...no assertions.

show me the rule book and I'll abide

There is no rule book, but others will begin to treat you as they would any other 2-year-old throwing a fit. Whether you agree with this or not, it is pretty much what you're doing.

I just don't see how hard it is to understand that the most innocent among us...the unborn

What you're doing is making me swallow YOUR belief that a fetus is an unborn child whether I agree with that or not. The abortion procedure is only secondary to you.

I can get a more honest dialog going with one of Ron Tonkin's top salesmen of the month than with your line of discourse.


I have to ask: Are you by any chance in Dale Ebers' congregation?

Broadway, you would understand better, if you would step up and bring some support to the table for your assertions.

The rule is really a decency one. Let's talk conversations for a moment, ignoring the Internet.

Say we are in a group of people, having a discussion about things. Does not matter really what the discussion is, just that it it happening.

Conversations are happening. Conversations are different from broadcasts, and that's actually an interesting topic for the radio side. (we can have conversations via the radio, but it costs too much...)

Ok then, so conversations it is.

A conversation between people is a two way exchange where there is information exchanged and feedback received.

Ideally, the conversation builds over time and that building, plus the feedback, has value in that we literally become smarter, better, more informed or at the least, more aware of one another through the exercise.

Now, imagine we are in this conversation and somebody walks up and just broadcasts some stuff.

"I just can't understand why you all don't see it my way!"

The other participants ask, "Why?"

This newbie states, "I don't have time to tell you, but I really just don't understand why you don't see it my way."

Other participants, being generous and also self-interested in maintaining the value of the conversation, try a different tack:

"How do you see it really?"

Newbie: "It just is, can't you see that?"

And it goes on for a while. Soon, those others realize it's just a broadcast, not a conversation and they become annoyed because...

Every broadcast, that is not adding value, diminished the value of the exercize as a whole! This is a selfish thing, and the "rule" is the same kind of "rule" one learns as a little kid when socializing.

(perhaps you didn't socialize that much?)

It's selfish because the participants of the conversation have a bond because of that conversation. If it's a good one, nobody really wants to end it.

The broadcasts make it less good, WITHOUT CONTRIBUTING ANYTHING IN RETURN.

IMHO, that's theft, or denial of service. It's really almost like SPAM.

So then, if continued, the group is then forced to take some action. Said action might be to confront that one way participant, and that's what I'm doing right now. They might choose to ignore, or perhaps just leave the group as a whole, in the hopes better conversation is to be had elsewhere.

Other confrontations are making fun of people, expressing anger, etc....

I'm trying the altruistic one and trying to enlighten with this post. Maybe it will work!

Now, let's incorporate the Internet.

All of us, who choose to come here, invest our time, and share things, get value from it. We only get this value, if there are two way exchanges we can benefit from.

Those exchanges enlighten us, allow us to see ourselves from a perspective we would not otherwise have, let us know we are not alone, or so different, or lots of things.

Because we are seperated by time and geography, this venue is where we meet. Moving to another one will break things. The format will be different, not everybody will move, etc...

Therefore, this is a captive audience! We are friends and have made bonds and see lots of value.

You, Broadway, are stealing from us! By broadcasting, instead of conversing, you devalue the venue and force the social dynamics I just got done posting about.

Want to fix that?

(and I really hope you do, because the bigger the group is, the more value we all get from it)

Tell us why! Have an exchange. Learn some stuff, get challenged, grow, etc...

If this is "waste of time", "too difficult", "scary", "sad"... then really you are telling us that WE don't matter, only YOU do. Nobody wants to hear that, so why do it?

" show me the rule book and I'll abide."

It would take a rule book for you agree with what some of us are saying to you about what it takes to be listened to and heard...or respected...or applauded? You have to have a rule book?

Back on topic.

>>Dale Ebers' congregation

never heard of the man.

>> making me swallow YOUR belief that a fetus is an unborn child

yes...that's my point and pretty much the most important premise on the issue and the bent of over half of America...need I say more...no...it's Labor Day!

Apologies to Vitalogy for what I'm about to post. Trying to cut down on the God stuff.

Broadway/Dan a little history lesson.

In Jesus’ day although abortion wasn’t known or practiced, unwanted pregnancies during the Roman Empire were brought to term and then the babies were left to die on the side of the road. This was known as the “Abandonment of Infants.” Historians believe 1/4 to a 1/3 of all babies born was abandoned. This is far worse than abortion because there is no question this is a baby born.

Yet Jesus says nothing about this egregious practice for which he surely knew was going on.

>>Jesus says nothing about this egregious practice

"thou shalt not kill" from the 10 commandments does not apply here?

So "thou shall not kill" is a direct reference to abortion? I am so disappointed in you Dan. I expected so much more.

>>direct reference to abortion

tell me why it is not...

Wait, before he does, can I just get a clarification?

Do you believe, Broadway, that " Thou shalt not kill " IS a direct reference to abortion?

That is a simple yes or no question.

Holding my cyber tongue for CJ.

Well thanks. But there is no way he'll answer that.

So I yeild the floor to the distinguished self-employed representative from Oregon.

Probably the nicest introduction you've ever given me CJ. I promise not to mention anything about personal fitness, diet or hygiene.

Besides you've proven my point.

This a slam dunk here guys...killing is killing of human life...pre and us post borners...really don't know why you can't intellectually grasp this...I know you don't think life is a human in the womb...just think it is and should be valued....plain and simple...

Well thanks for not answering what was a simple question.

Do you believe, Broadway, that " Thou shalt not kill " IS a direct reference to abortion?

it IS a direct reference to abortion AND a direct reference to us "proto-persons" living outside of the womb...both...a million times...both unborn and born.

" it IS a direct reference to abortion."

OK. Thanks for answering that.

You are lying and you know it.

Yep.

Busted huge.

Man, Broadway! "Proto-persons" must have really chapped your ass. You've been using that coined, on the fly term for a while now.

Tell you what. You can have it. All yours, for keeps.

Are we done responding to this Proto-Ass-Clown yet, or what?

My pledge: I'm 'going dark' for September (at least).

Feel free to join me.

>>You can have it. All yours, for keeps

thanks, I receive your gift with appreciation.

>>Busted huge

Busted for "life"...I'll take it! Again I only respond to the comments being made this side of radio blog...thats all.

>>I'm 'going dark' for September

have a great rest but glad you'll be back...and then maybe Herb might be here again too?

Herb's nutsack is too shriveled to bother to hang here anymore. He's not dumb like you guys. He sees the impending tidal wave coming to wash away all his fellow travelers and has deciced that retreat is his best option.

He's too busy reinforcing his bunker and hanging posters of his dream girl Palin on his ceiling.

But I'm sure it's just killing him to not chime in here and sing her praises. He must be taking a LOT of cold showers. Mrs. H is getting concerned about the water bill and all the Kleenex disappearing.

"it IS a direct reference to abortion AND a direct reference to us "proto-persons" living outside of the womb...both...a million times...both unborn and born.

Oh man, God is crying again. You're bringing shame to his name. Stop it.

actually in Exodus 20 a more correct interpretation is "thou shalt not murder"

>>God is crying again. You're bringing shame to his name

your observation...my goal daily is to glorify God in my service to Him to which I am not perfect and my heart grieves when posters here get so cynical/appathetic/hateful toward God...sad...but there's still hope for ya all!

"cynical/appathetic/hateful toward God"

Nope. Just towards YOU.
YOU are God's worst nightmare. You tarnish his name on a daily basis here.

Of course, no one here "hates" you, let alone "hates" God; you just make him look bad by putting your words in his mouth. Why can't you be more like Chris? Everybody here respects and admires (if not loves) him.

Dang it! I broke my promise again today, but I'm sure God will forgive me, so it's OK.

>>you just make him look bad by putting your words in his mouth

how's that when I'm quoting...ah...cut and pasting His Word?

>>I'm sure God will forgive me

that's His nature...a forgiving God!

>>Why can't you be more like Chris?

Cause I'm Broadway...your getting obviously 2 versions of "the gospel" ...the good news according to Chris or Broadway.

>>YOU are God's worst nightmare. You tarnish his name on a daily basis here

Maybe here on the radio is a better spokesperson for God...Jesus Christ

http://www.kfi640.com/pages/JesusChrist.html?feed=128001&article=444961

Merkin I'm a bit taken back by your words. I do appreciate them deeply. Probably more than you know.

The idea that there are 2 versions of the Gospel being talked about is actually incorrect. The Gospel Dan and I read is the same. The God we worship is the same. Our approach in discussing our faith is very different.

I guess my way is to first off qualify “this is what I believe” and not what I think you should believe.

Meeting people where they are at and not where I think they should be is how I feel Jesus approached people. I also do not subscribe to the "Jesus is the answer" doctrine. It's actually bad theology. If one really studies the teachings of Jesus you will find more questions than answers, but this is not a bad thing, its where one wrestles with their heart, mind and spiritual matters

I am not God's answer man. I question authority and even question God knowing my faith is still strong. I appreciate and value the perspective of people like Vitalogy, Skeptical and others. They help me sharpen my position. They are also people I feel I could sit down with and have a quality discussion about anything under the sun.

Dan is cut out of a different spiritual cloth. Bumper sticker theology and quips are easy to say and there is no need for explanation. You just have to believe that’s all. A pie in the sky way of delivering a deeply personal message of hope and salvation.

I tend to lean on theologians who have studied the bible in-depth. Have a breadth of understanding of the original language the bible was written (Greek, Hebrew) and who pause enough in their thought process to analyze Jesus’ true motives.

Reading the bible without any real guidance or historical grounding is a foolish way to read this book. There are subtle nuances in the Greek and Hebrew that if read literally will totally change the meaning. That is my biggest issue with the far right or very conservative interpretation of the scriptures and it’s where Dan and the Herb’s of the world live spiritually. I simply disagree and take issue with that kind of interpretation.

This was probably more than many of you wanted to read and I apologize for sounding a bit preachy.

Since Dan and I have known each other for many years there is a side to the man I enjoy even with our differences.

Chris - you have no need to apologize for "sounding preachy." You are a refreshing breath of fresh air for all Christianity, and you give hope to many that one CAN be a person of faith, yet still be capable of self-thought, someone who is accepting of others, someone who uses God's word as a guide for their life, someone who believes and lives those beliefs out, yet does not shove it down everyone else's throat. For those reasons, and many others, you have the universal respect of everyone in here.

It's nice to know that we have some Chris Taylors in this world, and not the Bible-thumping sheeple that desecrate God's word.

Yep. No worries here either.