I hated to start a new thread for this but wanted to keep it in the radio section: It's one year and counting!

I sent in for my $40 coupon about a month ago. No word yet. Yup, I'm still on a rooftop antenna. KOIN, KOAC and KOPB comes in great. KGW and KATU just so-so. We'll see how the analog signal compares with the digital signal a year from now.

KOAC??

KOAC-DT, Corvallis is on ch 39 now, are they going to stay on 39 or drop back to ch 7 after it goes dark?
Anybody here know what channels the Eugene stations will be using after the analog shutdown?

I would hope that next year or so when they put the HD on the permanent main channel an sort out all the other HDs that the power output is allowed to increase to cover their metros sufficiently.

The FCC has said unofficially that when the analog energy goes away they will reevaluate the entire coverage/interference spec for DT and unused VHF. However, we all know how fast a slug moves.

I still don't recieve KGW and KPXG on my sdtv with indoor antenna in McMinnville.
If my apt owner will allow a small Terk outdoor antenna, i would put one outside.
Or, i could put the antenna on a 30 or 40 foot mast. My apartment is two stories.
I'm on the ground level. How much tv mast is needed? I can strap it to the post!

If you are shadowed behind a hill you might not see much improvement as McM is at the edge of the Portland TV Grade B contours (depends on your specific location).
If you have no obstructions get an antenna with high gain or a RF amplifier.

Doesn't KGW have a translator in McMinnville?

Those damn Chehalem Mountains get in the way. McMinnville currently does not have any TV translator stations.

On my job I go into radio shack quite a bit for parts ( if you can still find any ! they are almost useless these days for that ) anyway when I go in I see a few folks buying outdoor yaggi type UHF and high band VHF antennas. We have a ch 11 ( Fox ) here in Pendleton with a transmitter up on spout springs east of the Tri Cities and its hard to get it with an inside antenna...We have gone full circle now. Back about 1990 I went in to buy a UHF antenna for my place at the old Ernst Hardware store and the guy told me that corporate had just junked all that old roof antenna hardware and recalled it all back to Seattle. Now in 2008/09 we are making more outdoor junk hardware TV antennas again.

The neighborhoods are gonnah look like 1960 all over again !!! Except with a healthy dolop of Sat dishes in the mix

At least Eugene won't have big channel 6 array's everywhere like in the day when KOIN was the closest CBS affiliate.

"KOAC??"

Yup, Corvallis. Except for some douglas fir trees, I've "apparently" a clear line of sight to the KOAC tower. It actually comes in better than KOPB. But we're splitting hairs.

I imagine KOPB would do better if I moved the antenna a bit, but doing so would make some of the other station's reception worse.

PS, Anybody with an old tower, feel free to donate it to me.

Kennewickman:

Help is on it's way! Right now KFFX-DT (digitial broadcast on ch 8) is operating on "special Temporary Authority" at only 6Kw! Ouch!
The license calls for 59 Kw, which should help a bunch.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=12729

Here's an update from today's Broadcast Engineering email.

http://broadcastengineering.com/hdtv/thirteen_million_households_unprepared_0219 /

From Skybill's article~

"Portland, OR, is the least prepared local market, with 22.4 percent of all households using only analog sets and over-the-air television."

*nervous laughter*

Example:
I'm not in Portland anymore (moved back to the Coove about a year ago) but my neighbours in the unit next to mine are younger (mid-20s) and they have no idea that the United States is supposedly going to kill analogue television a year from now. Upon recently talking to them, they apparently believe they are set for the NTSC kill date because "the tuner in our big-screen is a digital tuner" (meaning it is a regular NTSC television that uses a remote and on-screen display, like pretty much all modern NTSC sets do.) No, they don't use Comcrap or DVBS.

Scary!

I understand that the cable TV companies, or most of them , will broadcast their "bill of fare" in analog for some time to come after next February. I have been into this because I am employed at a public school district and there have been concerns for the last several years about what the district would do if there were no more analog signals for their 1000 or more TV sets.

Issues with installing converters are almost as bad as replacing the TV entirely with an HD tuner type. Not as expensive as replacements would be but where to put the converters is a big issue with use of mounting hardware in most classrooms for the TV/VCR/DVD set up relative to classroom space. I certainly hope that 'they' come through with that simple solution for a few years instead of laying me up with 1000 converters to install in each classroom and library etc !

OH and thanks JR TECH.

I will have to see if I can scan ch 8 now...I live in the south kennewick area so it might be someplace I can get a line of site bead on that signal...I may have to re-scan my satellite reciever because my powered loop/rabbit ears antenna feeds the reciever not my TV directly. mmm? ya...well..

Oh and we had some excitment over here this AM with the Meteor. I was still laying in bed @ 5:30 and a bright light came in through my blinds , I thought someone had pulled up in my parking strip out front. I get up and my daughter was eating breakfast and says what was that bright light in the kitchen window.

I guess they think it might have blown up over Walla Walla or Columbia counties.

Kennewickman:

You'll definitely want to talk to your local cable company to find out their plan for the digital switchover.

I know that locally, Comcast plans on switching off analog as soon as possible after the February date, requiring those that don't have converter boxes to rent one from them.

OH boy !

I will have to re-visit that one again I guess...My boss might be keeping that info from me because I am swamped with other technical issues daily/weekly and that is just one more 'thing' to deal with that he doesnt want to get in to right now.

Thanks for the input darkstar.

I talked to the Charter Cable engineer here in the Tri-Cities. He told me that Charter will provide basic cable ( we have 78 channels here) in Analog format indefinately. If Charter is doing this, I cant imagine that a company the size of Comcast would not do the same as well.

IMO, forcing everyone to rent digital cable boxes from their cable company = tons of extra revenue for the cable company in the form of another "hidden" charge for most people.
I've known people that decided to get digital cable because they could still watch the regular analog channels on the other TVs in their house. When the cable co. charges $5-10 per box as a rental fee, it's easy to understand how this adds up.

On our system you dont have to have a digital cable box to get the basic cable. Our analog TVs tune ch 1 thru 99 and higher. But the basic cable is broadcast on those channels, 1 to 78 and then a couple of other channels that are in the 90s.

No cable boxes for basic cable and it will be analog. So if you want other than basic you will have to get the company converter and probably a hybrid tuner TV set because the other channels will be ( mostly ) in HD I assume.

"and probably a hybrid tuner TV set"

My guess is that even if the cable system becomes ALL digital, the cable boxes will provide analog as well as digital outputs for YEARS, so that you can use either a older 4:3 or a new 16:9 set.

Right now, I would think that the analog shutdown of OTA signals will result in more people signing up for cable or satellite instead of buying convertor boxes/and perhaps putting up outdoor antennas. Cable/Satellite companies will likely not ignore this opportunity to increase customer base.

"Portland, OR, is the least prepared local market, with 22.4 percent of all households using only analog sets and over-the-air television."
Knowing that we're Portland, not the rest of the country (and yes I'm counting the rest of the metro area in the equation), I wonder how much of that 22.4 percent are those that will be saying "sayonara" to television viewing a year from now - and are perfectly happy with doing so!

(Amazing! The spell checker built into the forum here doesn't understand "households," "using," "sets," or "viewing," but it recognizes "sayonara!")

It doesn't recognize suffixes.

But it recognizes suffix.

I'd say we just stuff it!

Until the day that I can find one of these converter boxes at a garage sale or pawn shop, I will be saying "sayonara" to television watching. Why should I be forced to satisfy electronics manufacturers' desires for higher profit margins by buying one of the new high-end TVs, when I am perfectly happy with a 4:3 "picture in a box." I just want that picture in a box to be something that is worth looking at.

You don't need to buy a "high-end" TV to receive local channels. They now make standard definition sets that are digital and sell for the same price as analog.

The Echostar TR-40 converter (availabile this summer) will be $40. Since the coupons are good for $40 off, there's no need to wait for a yard sale.

I saw two different converter boxes at the Bend Walmart this week. The cost for both units was $49.99. So after your $40 coupon...$9.99. I hear Dish Network is making one for $40, but I don't know if shipping is extra.

Brent sez--
"I hear Dish Network is making one for $40, but I don't know if shipping is extra."

That would be the Echostar TR-40 that Billmcf mentioned above. Echostar does own the DISH Network, but since the TR40 is an OTA box, I doubt E'star will be branding it with the DN logo. No, you probably can't listen to the "Charlie Chats" on it either. *laughs* ;o)

This is the box I have been eyeballing really for no reason other than it's an Echostar (I think I may still have my old ETS310 C-band box somewhere at home) but my voucher will probably be expired by the time it comes out. Damn.............

I did get an interesting call back today on the subject I refered to above in this string. A few days ago I thought I was talking to the chief engr. of our local Charter Cable facility. Not so. That guy told me " Basic cable will be offered indefinately" on channels 1 thru 99 in analog on Charter cable.

Today I got a call from the 'real' chief engineer at Charter. He indicated that Charter would ( in his opinion only )support basic cable in analog on chs 1 thru 99 for a maximum of 18 months AFTER Feb 2009.

One opinion may be the official talking point from a PR Q&A list. The other may be the real information. Either way, anything anyone says on behalf of a company can usually be refuted anyway.

I doubt E'star will be branding it [TR-40] with the DN logo. No, you probably can't listen to the "Charlie Chats" on it either. *laughs* ;o)
Was once paying nearly $100 for "America's 'Everything' Pack" back in 2003. The only channels we used with any regularity were the music channels (pre-Sirius) and the Charlie Chats. Decided that wasn't worth $100/mo., or even the amount for a basic package. Out the door that went, and I don't miss the bill.
Still have the dish and the old 4700-series receiver (bought and paid for), but not for long - they're going out to wherever takes that kind of recycling. If we can't find anywhere that takes the stuff free, my brother throws it in the trash (oh well ).

Newflyer--As far as I am concerned, free to air is really the only way to go with satellite. Heck, I have a Pansat 9200HD (has DVBS and terrestrial ATSC) that I bought last December up in Seattle and an old 4 1/2' Muzak dish I bought and refurbed last summer. Works OK for C-band (it's really a KU-band dish that I put a combo LNB on) but the Ku-band transponders constantly scream in L&C.

And tuning to Echo 7 I *can* listen to the Charlie Chats on the Pansat. ;o)

Maybe in the future I will dust off the old 310 and see what's even out there in analogue form any more..........

Geez, I can't wait until Feb. 17 2009 when our tv channels going to be like this.

KGW 8
KOPB 10
KPTV 12
KPXG 22
KNMT 24
KPDX 30
KRCW 33
KOIN 40
KATU 43

Since ch. 30 is transmitted from the ch. 12 tower, and 43 is transmitted from the Sylvan site, it sounds as if the ch. 2 and ch. 49 towers may be no longer needed. Anybody here know of plans to take these towers down to make more room for condos?

OH no...once you got a tower up and grandfathered that tower is like 'Pure Gold'. Big bucks leasing out you know. The old and original KTNT ch 11 tower in central hilltop Tacoma ( erected in 1953 ) is still there, albeit much shorter now and is used for Cell and other services.

There are so many microwave links both for ENG and statewide distribution of signals on those towers as well as UHF/VHF radio antennae, they aren't going anywhere in a hurry. Probably never.

Even the old KPTV 27 tower is still up! One day, archaeologists will dig up remains of our civilization and find remnants of old radio towers.

According to Uncle Charlie. KNMT digital will be on channel 45.

Most people won't know it though because new TVs will read them as the original channels!

What will happen to the KRCW DTV translator that is currently on channel 4?

It's on channel 5 and will probably be phased out since there's no long-term use for it.

I get an analog translator on VHF channel 5.

Ch 5 Analog Portland Repeats ch. 32 KRCW Salem... The digital for KRCW is ch.33 in Portland. The analog KRCW translator moved from ch. 4 to ch. 5 to make room for KPXG digital.

The digital signal in Portland on ch. 4 is KPXG digital (COL Salem) which transmits 4 programs in standard definition, the first of which (designated 22.1) is the same as ch. 22(KPXG) Salem and ch. 54 (KPXG-LP) Portland.

Confusing!

I misread that. I am not aware of a digital translator for KRCW-DT on any frequency.

The FCC lists the COL for KRCW-DT (ch. 33) as Salem, but the transmitter is located at the Sylvan site. It is combined into the same antenna as KATU-DT (ch.43) and KOIN-DT (ch.40).
Picture of the transmitter in the SBE 124 "Sylvan tour" here:

http://www.sbe124.org/Tours/Portland/Sylvan/sylvan.html

Motozak- I'm curious about FTA... it seems that there are two sides to the FTA crowd - folks that are interested in watching things that are actually intended to be free, and then folks who want to use the FTA equipment to get the same kind of programming others pay for on DTV/Dish, but via alternate means(watching the Canadian DBS broadcasters for example).

My brief investigation of the subject indicates that most/all of the intended-to-be-free programming is religious and/or foreign-language. True? What's your take on the subject?

My personal view--

Really there are two kinds of people who use FTA equipment: those who only want to receive the stuff that *is* legitimately free (like many of the ethnic and religious broadcasts, and even Muzak for the past 20some years until they started scrambling it last month) and the more intrepid/adventurous people who use FTA equipment to get stuff that technically *isn't* free (like Dish Net transponders), often by means of software-implemented descramblers. (Do a Google search for DVB98 sometime. ;o) It's kinda' like the ages-old "Black-hat-white-hat-hacker" routine.

I tend to be kind of in between these two types. I use my box for receiving the legit FTA stuff but I have only little moral or ethical issues with descrambling the technically-pay access stuff either. (It's a waste of time and life processes to fret over it; it's only zeroes and ones after all.) Really my only major barrier at this moment is technical--I haven't the slightest clue (yet) how to mod my Pansat to do this. The story might end up being different when/if I build my PC-based sat box sometime in the future.

I originally purchased my first receiver in 2004 to receive, yes, Muzak off Echostar 7. (Hey, living in a market seemingly practically dominated by Cheap Channel AM's & FM's will eventually do that to a guy.....) Just for kicks and street cred I acquired an actual Muzak dish at a flea market about a year ago. I'm still waiting to hear back from the apartment manager on that one.

Really, modding a receiver to descramble DVB programming, as I can see it, will only become the big trend of the future, especially if broadcasters and satellite companies try to decrease the number of free channels available, citing copywrong issues, piracy or whatever the latest fabricated controversy of the week happens to be. I mean, if your receiver is one-way (as most of them available are) who's gonna know if you are using a DVB98 implementation with Nagravision spoofing and receiving Dish Net without even paying a penny besides you, the user? In the end it's a really foolish game for companies to play, trying to enforce copyright regulations on broadcasts because they *will* be broken and/or cracked. (On a side-topic, I am still curious to see what the future/fate of Ibiquity's brilliant little "pay to play HD Radio" idea turns out to be, if it ever does.)

It's a commonly circulated myth that in order to access and use satellite programming of any sort you always have to pay for it--it's just that, a myth. Total B-S. There is no law or regulation that exists stating "all who use satellite must pay a fee to someone." At least, there isn't at the time of this writing anyways. (That may change as the Government, FCC, MPA* or RIA* etcetera try to conceive even sneakier and, well, dishonester ways to extort money out of even the most well-meaning people.)

But now to get back to answering your query: Yes, a large amount of programming available FTA is religious and foreign programming but not all of it. There's a bit of niche programmes to be had as well. You can even find entire cable networks and "translators" of local broadcast affiliates from different points in the country. (For example, with a C-band dish--in fact even my 4' Muzak dish works surprisingly well for C-band--you can find several feeds of "The CW" on Galaxy 11 for differend regions of the country.)

And yes, there is a lot of religious programming spread across different birds. Most of this is deliberately sent out FTA. TBN has several channels (actually all of which can be watched here terrestrially via ATSC channel 45), the old Three Angels Broadcasting system is available and lots of others.

Here are a couple of decent (albeit slightly out of date) tables of free to air broadcasts available in North America (if you use dialup, be patient, as these pages are kind of long and could take a while to load, depending on your modem, the line conditions and other things)--

http://lyngsat.com/freetv/United-States.html (for FTA TV channels) and
http://lyngsat.com/freeradio/United-States.html (for FTA audio programming. Note they list Muzak channels as FTA--this is out of date now, as they started scrambling them in January of this year.)

If you hurry you can pick up the current edition of 2600 Magazine (Volume 24 #4, Winter '07-08) at Border's Books and turn to page 16, wherein you can read "GutBomb"'s article "Scanning the Skies" about FTA DVB receiving.

As I see it, satellite is sort-of becoming what shortwave has become in the past 20 years or so. It's really where you'd find most of your ethnic and niche programming. In fact, many SW broadcasters such as the BBC have abandoned SW for satellite.

(Note that the above views opinions and philosophical ramblings-on represent my own $2.00 worth, adjusted for inflation, sales tax and S&H and don't necesarilly represent those of the satellite industry or any broadcaster--that would be kind of awkward anyways......)

Here's an interesting story.

http://www.tvtech.com/pages/s.0082/t.4975.html

Now there is a vacation destination I want to go too ! The Analog TV transmitter museum. I wonder if Carnival could make a theme cruise out of that one? Maybe go up the Missisip'on a Stern-wheeler.

I am a bit surprised (see tvtech link, above), that the market for used UHF DTV transmitters would be small. Why wouldn't UHF DTV stations want to buy one of these as a backup? Couldn't LPTVs and translator stations make use of some of the lower-powered units?

Another nit-pick issue: right now, I am watching a 2" pocket sized Citizen LCD TV, which is about 16 years old. As far as I know, there are no similar TVs designed to receive DTV signals. While it would be possible to hook up a converter box to this TV, doing so would be very clunky and impractical. The only option for receiving TV brodacasts in a mobile device after 2009, that I am aware of, will be to get a V-Cast phone, and that requires a subscription fee.

"As far as I know, there are no similar TVs designed to receive DTV signals. While it would be possible to hook up a converter box to this TV, doing so would be very clunky and impractical."

It will be interesting to see if a low power ATSC chipset is developed for portable use... it has been a slow process for HD radio. I would guess the larger market would be for "TV Audio" portable radios (rather than "walkman" size TVs)... there are millions of these in use, delivering TV news, soaps, and other TV program audio mostly to people who can't WATCH TV while working. Many of these listeners possibly have not yet made the connection between the "analog tv shutdown" and their portable radios that receive TV audio.
A decent ATSC audio / HD portable radio might be a hot product next year.

The other thing I haven't heard of either is what ultimately happens to the Ch 6 LPTVs in various places that use the audio signal at 87.7-ish to offer radio-based broadcasting service to their various markets. "87.7 The End" in Anchorage, AK and that "Pulse 87" on Long Island, NY that's been receiving a bit of press on R&Rs website lately.

(Okay, so according to this the station in Anchorage is no longer called "The End" and no longer broadcasting the same programming. But still, same basic issue.)

"While the February 17, 2009 deadline for ending analog broadcasts does not apply to low-power, Class A, and TV translator stations, the FCC will require these stations to convert to digital broadcasting sometime thereafter. Nearly 2,000 of these stations have been authorized to construct digital facilities and some are broadcasting in digital already. The FCC is currently considering the remaining issues involved with the low-power digital transition and will make decisions regarding these stations in the future."

from:

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/DTVandLPTV.html

Just another reason to produce ATSC TV audio radios

The low power stations are simply on a different timetable because the FCC wanted to get through the transition of the main stations first. The whole application and construction permit period is going on now. It will just take longer than February 17th because of the late start. I'll guess 3 additional years, 5 at the most.

Now there is a vacation destination I want to go too ! The Analog TV transmitter museum.

Along those same lines, has anybody been to the American Museum of Radio and Electricity in Bellingham?

http://www.amre.us/site/

I was there about 12 years ago and it is really interesting.

I wasn't sure it even existed any longer so I Googled it and sure enough it's still there.

I'm thinking it's time for a road trip to Bellingham...

The Museum and Grizzly...Tools and radio's, what could be better!

I have a friend who I believe was an announcer there!

I was reading an interesting post over at AVS Forums website. It seems that four TV stations back east. Will be running two high def channels. It works something like this. The main channel will be 1080i... While the second channel will be 720p..

The stations are....

WGNO New Orleans, LA
KALB Alexandria, LA
KXII Sherman, TX
WKYT Lexington, KY

One has to wonder how bad the macro blocking might be on each digital channel?

<color/dark> "Back near the start of this blog..."

I seent in for my two analog coupons over two months agao, as I have a great old TV I use in my studio for odds and ends and the extra bedroom one. Just received the $40 discount cards yesterday, so will go shopping in the next week or so to be up to par.

Sorry on that <> was working on two screens. Duh...

If you're shopping for a DTV converter box keep in mind that very few models so far offer "RF pass through." RF pass through allows analog signals to pass through the box to your analog TV. Depending on where you live this could be an important feature because it's only the full power analog stations that have to shut down next February. Analog low power and translator stations will still be operating after that. When I got my coupons last week there were only three models on the list of boxes included in the coupon program that had RF pass through. Guess how many retailers in the coupon program carried any of those three models. That's right. Zero. Last weekend I was walking past the Radio Shack at Clackamas Town Center so I ducked in to look at what turned out to be the one model they carry. The salesman tried to tell me that it offered RF pass through because it had RF in and RF out connectors. Don't be fooled. An RF out connector only means it has a channel 3-4 modulator to feed TVs without audio/video inputs. If it doesn't say "RF pass through" or "analog pass through" or something similar in the list of features, it probably doesn't have it.

So will the three month clock run out on my coupons before I find a qualified model I can buy from a qualified retailer? Hmmmm...this is beginning to look like a government program. Looks great at first glance but the closer you look the more it resembles a classic Catch 22.

KATU 2.1
KOIN 6.1 CBS-HD
KOIN 6.2 CBS-SD
KGW 8.1 NBC
KGW 8.2 NBC Weather Plus
KOPB 10.1 OPB-HD
KOPB 10.2 OPB CREATE
KOPB 10.3 The Oregon Channel
KPTV 12.1 FOX
KPXG 22.1 ION
KPXG 22.2 ION Life
KPXG 22.3 Qubo
KPXG 22.4 Worship
KNMT 24.1 TBN
KNMT 24.2 The Church Channel
KNMT 24.3 JCTV
KNMT 24.4 Enlace USA
KNMT 24.5 The Church Channel
KRCW 32.1 CW
KRCW 32.2 Off the air
KPDX 49.1 MNT

E_dawg, I have no idea where you came up with this list! It looks a little like what you get if you plug in your cable directly to the set but the cable doesn't pass some of the stations that you list on those channels.

Semoochie : Hook up an antenna! These all are the digital channels broadcast in the Portland area. I made a few minor corrections, additions to the list above

KATU 2.1 ABC-HD **
KOIN 6.1 CBS-HD
KOIN 6.2 CBS-SD
KGW 8.1 NBC-HD **
KGW 8.2 NBC Weather Plus
KOPB 10.1 OPB-HD
KOPB 10.2 OPB-SD **
KOPB 10.3 OPB CREATE **
KOPB 10.4 The Oregon Channel **
KPTV 12.1 FOX-HD **
KPXG 22.1 ION
KPXG 22.2 Qubo **
KPXG 22.3 Ion Life **
KPXG 22.4 Worship
KNMT 24.1 TBN
KNMT 24.2 The Church Channel
KNMT 24.3 JCTV
KNMT 24.4 Enlace USA
KNMT 24.5 The Church Channel ??(kids programming) **
KRCW 32.1 CW-HD **
KRCW 32.2 Off the air (was "The Tube" -music videos) **
KPDX 49.1 MNT-HD**

** Updated by "jr"

I acknowledge that these are stations that come in, just not on these frequencies unless they're being converted somehow! Let's see if I can remember this: KATU 43, KOIN 40, KGW 46, KPTV 30, KPXG 4, KNMT 45, KRCW 33, KPDX 48 and KOPB 27. When the conversion is complete, KATU, KOIN, KNMT and KRCW will stay put. KGW will move to 8, KOPB to 10, KPTV to 12, KPXG to 22 and KPDX to 30.

That is just what they call them. That is so they "match" what you already know. Those are not really the channels they are currently on. All of them are currently on UHF channels except 22, which is on VHF-4, but moving back to 22.
24 is on 45
32 is on 33
49 is currently on 48, moving to 30?
12 is currently on 30, moving back to 12
10 is currently on 27, moving back to 10
8 is currently on 46, moving back to 8
6 is on 40
2 is on 43

The channel numbers that I posted above are the channel numbers displayed by most Digital TV convertor boxes/HDTV's. You are 100% correct about the "real" channels, but displaying these channel numbers would be very confusing to the general public, and many are going to change again, as you pointed out. Why would KATU want to display ch 43? I always thought it would be nice, however if KPTV ended up with ch 27 after the dust settled

Thank you, Jr_tech for KOPB 27! I made the correction.

Why would KPTV want to end up with CH27? Other than the Nostalgia for you, there is none for the current owner, Meredith. Plus, the electric bill would be much higher for CH27 than for CH12. Most people in this town don't remember CH27 for KPTV anyway and most of them could care less.

Sorry for the double post info with Semoochie, I was typing mine when he posted so I did not see it until after I had posted. Otherwise, I wouldn't have done it.

It's fine with me; we need all the variety we can get! I am a little surprised we both chose that moment to post something that wasn't directly on topic though.

Once the VHF-low stations are gone, it will be interesting to see if it is possible to DX Canadian stations on these channels when the conditions are right.

Is the Canadian analog shutdown still scheduled for Aug 31, 2011... we might have a few years for some good Dxing !

Jimbo: If I substituted "ironic" for "nice" would that be better?

I will certainly be on the lookout for the VHF-low DX. Seeing what skips in is guaranteed to be 10x the fun of watching what is being broadcast on the American DTV transmitters. If DX is possible, It will also be interesting to see if the DXing stops in 2011, when the Canadian transmitters are shut off, or if other (non-TV) American-based services start popping up on those frequencies before then.

I have not heard of a shutdown date for analog in Mexico yet, so some good low band E-skip from the south would seem to be likely as well!

"If I substituted "ironic" for "nice" would that be better?"
It wouldn't make any difference.

If memory serves me correctly, the only channel I can recall seeing in this town from far away was on CH2 before KATU came on the scene. Of course, that was before the television channels filled up. I don't remember off hand where they were from but this has been discussed on this board in the past. I think it was from back in Montana or the Dakotas somewhere. Back when stations actually ran test patterns with ID's on them.

Problem for the deadline?

Small Stations Sue Over Digital TV Plan

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=116&sid=1372951

which bravestation willbe first to shut off the analog??or willall do it onthe same day?

> Gary Shapiro, president and CEO of the Consumer
> Electronics Association, accused the broadcast
> association of "trying an 11th-hour litigation
> strategy to freeze the entire nation in analog."

WTF?? Why is it that high profile industry group leaders get to make exaggerated statements like this? The large stations put DTV simulcasts on the air years ago, and the TVs and converters have been available for years. How could anything possibly be frozen? "Let the marketplace decide," I say. (Evil grin.)

we need a deadline for shutdown of HD noise on AM Band.that would be good pprogress!!!Resume C-QUAM Stereo!!!Put the hD hardware in the computer recycle dumpsterto be green!!!!!!!Or we might send the localfur protesters over for a visit!!???

Nope 62, from what I could make of your post it looks like you have confused IBAC with digital television (part of the reason why I opt to refrain from referring to Ibiquity DAB by its brand-name.) Try ../5/335041.html"../5/334874.html" target=_top>../5/334874.html"#f7f7f7" align=left> Author: Alfredo_t
Monday, April 21, 2008 - 5:51 pm

Yep, this is off-topic. For what it's worth, you could make the argument that a good reason for not chucking the old C-QUAM equipment is that virtually all of it contains lead solder!! The newest IBAC gear is most likely RoHS* compliant, so disposal is not as much of an issue.

* RoHS stands for Restriction of Hazardous Substances. RoHS puts strict limits on the use of lead, mercury, cadmium, hexavalent chromium, polybromated biphenyls, and polybromated dimethyl ether in electronic equipment. RoHS is a European Union directive, but component and circuit board manufacturers have largely adopted the guidelines regardless of the target market for their products.

"will all do it on the same day?"
It is not really a direct quote. Most of what 62 writes is undecipherable. I modified it so it makes some sense.....

However, the answer to his question (I assume that is his question) is probably yes. At midnight. There is a reason that date was chosen. I am not sure but it is after some big sporting or tv event so as to let the event conclude first. I'm thinking Super Bowl but don't hold me to that.
There is no real incentive or reason to be first to shut off the analog signal. FWIW, It won't really be shut down. The stations will continue doing what they have been doing, internally. The only thing that will change for most will be that they turn off the Analog transmitter. They will still be doing the same thing in the studio because they are still feeding the analog signal to their translators, repeaters, satellite providers, and cable companies. They will most likely still be upconverting their 4X3 for the digital until they all have spent the money and converted all equipment in the studio.

It is still not finalized on what the cables and satellite providers will do and for how long. Comcast will probably keep taking both analog and digital feeds for a while. Currently, Dish Network gets the Portland signals from Off-air for both analog and digital. Direct gets the digital from off-air and the analog direct from the stations via fiber. Direct is talking about taking just the digital and chopping off the sides for the analog side or changing to letterbox. Dish may also do the same. The problem with chopping off the sides is that some info may be lost. Last I heard, that has not been decided yet. Stations are not happy with chopping off the sides.

The next question to ask is once the analogs are shut down, when will the upper VHF band stations move their digital to the old frequency. How long will that process take to complete. I believe they all currently have CP's to do that.

Wilmington, North Carolina will become the first "test market" for DTV. All of the major network stations have agree to Broadcast in Digital on September 8, 2007.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-282032A1.pdf

That's September 8, 2008. It will be interesting to see the outcome of this: will the $hit hit the fan, or will it become a non-issue. Will there be people who will welcome being "liberated" from watching the dreck that comprises most broadcast TV today?

"Will there be people who will welcome being "liberated" from watching the dreck that comprises most broadcast TV today?"
How will they be liberated? If you think that suddenly the programs will change when they switch to all DTV, you had better think again. You are going to get the same programming you are right now. Eventually, programming will start moving to more HD content but initially, it will be the same old same old. The stations should all be broadcasting with their DT signals now. The only difference will be that they will turn the analog transmitter off. The programs will continue as they are. Some will be HD, the majority will not. They will be upconverted SD programs as they are now.

The PBS station in Wilmington has elected not to participate, citing hurricane season. They do not want to be at less than peak efficiency if the test fails in any way.

I was being slightly tongue-in-cheek about people being "liberated" from TV. I had meant that some people might decide to do something other than watch TV when their old TV stops working.

As far as the content of TV programming changing because of HDTV, I agree that it won't. The dreck will just look prettier. We will be able to get a better look at the wrinkles and dental work of American Idol contestants--whoop de doo!