For an employee, there's very little worse than being fired. And sometimes it seems really unfair. You're not allowed a final show. You're keys and ID are immediately seized, and you're escorted from the building. Yuk.

For most employers, as hard as it seems, there's very little worse than having to fire an employee -- even a really bad one. Terminating someone because of format changes, downsizing, and other less obvious reasons is the worst.

Having spent considerable time near the top, and having done my share of firing (or authorizing it) I can tell you this. Every seminar I've ever attended on how to deal with the termination of an employee recommends the same procedures.

Do it early in the week if possible. Apparently this helps prevent a substance abusing weekend of plotting revenge, at a time period when the company is least staffed and most vulnerable.

Never let a terminated employee back on the air. Your license as well as your audience is at stake. The fired employee might be a real pro, or she/he might go ballistic and decide to take the show down with himer.

Have a human resources person with you at the end of the termination meeting, to explain exactly what the employee is and isn't entitled to. Then have the HR or security person escort the employee to their work area to remove all personal effects, collect all their keys and ID from them, and escort them from the building. Immediately change all computer access codes, email codes, etc.

From that moment on, the former employee is to be treated as another member of the general public.

I suspect most fired employees (including me, once) just pack up and go quietly.

But I've also worked with a legendary (but nameless) consultant who, upon being fired, logged into every computer in the radio group and erased the hard drives on every programming computer -- claiming since he created the clocks and playlists, he could take them with him.

If a salesperson at Macy's is let go -- they don't get a chance to say goodbye to all their regular customers. If a bus driver is terminated, she doesn't get a chance to say goodbye to all the regulars on their route. Radio isn't the only biz where an employee develops a close relationship to the customer. But it's one of the few where allowing an employee to continue working even for a day after learning of their termination could easily cost the employer millions or tens of millions in FCC fines or lost licenses.

I have never worked with a large broadcast organization that didn't have very specific written policies for termination. The policies might seem to some cold or heartless, but they are legal necessities as well as common sense.

As someone so aptly put it, reality bites.

Ok,

And then there is my case. I was a partimer, which shouldnt have made any difference. They told me after christmas that the station I worked for was going jockless till about late January, after an image change ( not format )and it is "New Country".

Then in Feb they told me , go down the hallway and ask "so and so" if you can be on his station (Classic Rock). He gave me a song and dance. Then the now OPS mgr said, Oh well we would like to use you, but things are not quite right and you are still being PAID ! And I said, " Well if I am still being paid, I dont know who is cashing the checks because I am sure not seeing any money out of this deal ! The look in this guy's face was of 'DUH"... And so this OPS mgr says " "so you I guess you are lucky, at least you havent been escorted out of the building ! What ?? Huh?

I still had the front door key, and it still worked in the door when I came back in in late April to TURN IN THE KEY to the HR person. I told her I was uncomfortable carrying around a key on my ring when I hadnt done a bloody thing since Christmas ! So she says " does this mean that you are quitting"?...And I said " Well you can take it any way you like, but I think it is irresponsible on the part of corporate to have an apparent 'former' employee running around town with a front door key to studios and automation computers and transmitter remote controls for 6 broadcast radio stations!

Tales from the Twilight Zone Tri Cities Market. Yes, I did work for this facility for 12 years under 3 or 4 ownerships, but that shouldnt have made any difference.

Firing someone and taking the keys is one thing. Have you ever fired or thought about firing an IT person? Taking his/her front door key is pointless. An IT person typically has remote access to everything and usually several different ways of gaining access to the system. You defineately want to part on good terms. Remember, these are the people that setup your user accounts and supply you with your passwords. Just removing their password and user account is no safeguard. You would need to rotate every password on every system. And how do you know there is no backdoor access setup through some router at some remote location. You defineately never let them touch any PC after being terminated. All they need do is flip over the keyboard to get someones current password or from the post-it note on their monitor. I think most IT professionals safeguard their reputation very closely by never doing anything malicious but there is always that one person who seems to feel the need for revenge.

Interesting Article:
http://www.networkworld.com/research/2000/0626feat.html

This guy left a logic bomb and one day it exploded or more appropriately imploded.

Hey, we've all been fired or quit from every job we've ever had.

When you're self-employed, you can't quit nor fire yourself.
When business is slow and the bills are growing like a fungus there is no escaping. There is no "unemployment" compensation.

Good jobs are hard to find and harder to keep, especially in broadcasting which according to every indication out there is a dying industry, or perhaps an industry trying to retool itself into a model that excludes anything vaguely resembling broad appeal entertainment. As the large corporations have dominated the large market radioscape for over a decade, greedy stockholders can only be pacified by greater returns.
This can only be achieved in a dwindling revenue market by loppping heads and buying into syndicated automation.

So, where's the surprise here?

Terry, my one and only time I was let go couldn't have been farther from the method you describe. The station manager was alone when he told me that my position was being eliminated. We didn't have an in-house HR person, so I had to ask who to call to get information on 401(k) rollover, COBRA, etc. The oddest part was being given the option to leave now with severance and, if I wanted the extra money, I could "hang out" til the end of the month, which was about three weeks! I took the money, came in every day and hung out. I was operations manager and I could have done a lot of damage, but I didn't.

In retrospect, I wish I hadn't stayed those three weeks, as they were extremely painful for all of us. I had been at the station for almost thirteen years. I did get a nice going away luncheon though.

By the way, the company was Entercom, not usually known for their generosity in these matters.

That is unusual to say the least Ron.

When I was let go at KPDQ after 5 years I was allowed to come back that evening and get my stuff since I was let go right after returning from lunch.

I felt no animosity more of a relief. I had been looking for work elsewhere but just couldn't find anything that was decent.

Things had gotten pretty bad at the station and I wasn't totally surprised by the firing.

My wife was let go a year and half earlier. So here we were no full time job, baby on the way, new car payment and a mortgage. What happened over the next few months I count as a benchmark in our relationship and our employment.

Andy Brown sez:

"When you're self-employed, you can't quit nor fire yourself.
When business is slow and the bills are growing like a fungus there is no escaping. There is no "unemployment" compensation"

You really find out what you're made of during those times. And you learn and grow from those times.

Learning about being doubled taxed or more accurately combined employer/employee taxes of 12.4 percent for Social Security and 2.9 percent for Medicare taxes.

This is the best job I've ever had. I can hardly call it a "job" because it's just so much fun. I'm still playing radio but on my terms.

I have been fired 3 times. The first one was by far the best of the bunch.

I answered the phone call that got all of us fired. The call came in on the listener line, "Hi, my name is _____, with _________ Co., can I speak to (the station owner) please?" No problem. Put it through, like any other call. Had no idea from the name of the company what the call could have meant.

That Friday evening, we had a meeting, as usual, after we put the station on home made auto pilot, and were told that we were being replaced by satellite, effective immediately. The call I answered was the sales pitch they couldn't refuse.

Same station would not allow us to make airchecks, and one of the owners always found a reason to be in the production studio if someone was doing news or spots.

I didn't have a problem with their business decision. The problem was that they were so worried about us leaving them that it was nearly impossible to move on when they left us.

Ron,

You are one of the most kind people in this business. I'm sure it was difficult for everyone, but something memorable as well.

For the rest of my life, I'll always think of you as a TRUE MENTOR for me in my 17 years in broadcasting. I am teaching elementary school, so I couldn't make it up for the big reunion. I wish I could have been there bud!

Matt

Thanks Matt, I take your kind words as high praise indeed.

For as often as people get fired in this business, pick up and do it again somewhere else, it's hard to accept how easily my one and only termination so effectively killed my career.
I was a slow death, the ol' career finally petering out in Seattle two years later.

On a more positive note, I have always received the greatest joy out of seeing someone like you move on to bigger and better things. Like a bird, you gobbled up the knowledge until you were ready to fly. And you had a voracious appetite!

I'm proud of your accomplishments and your contribution to Eugene radio. And a tiny bit jealous, because you did it and I didn't, but you know what they say...those who can't teach. Oh wait, you can AND you teach!

Hmm, I was let go by the secretary, who followed me around the station as I tried to figure out what was mine and what wasn't. No one else there, although the owner was hiding behind a column in the hallway watching me leave.
I did have a good laugh though as I had the password and full access to the website. I didn't do anything but it sure was tempting!

"Do it early in the week if possible. Apparently this helps prevent a substance abusing weekend of plotting revenge"

Yep -- this applies to all businesses actually. A firing on Monday will allow the canned employee to get their bearings and a little bit of dignity by calling their lawyers, unions, colleagues, et al for options immediately instead of stewing all weekend as Tdanner mentioned. Its unbeliveable how many managers put themselves in the crosshairs for the "postal effect" by firing employees at the end of business Friday.

I had a crazy thought after reading this thread... Anyone else been fired from any job for the first time between around 18-24, and used the experience so they would know what it feels like for later in life?
At that age, people can't go all over town blasting whoever fired them, since that previous employer can make sure they never have another job in said town/metro area ever again.
Another thing being fired does... tells people how important it is to make connections in the general community. If someone thinks they can get by with only the Unemployment Office and the newspaper/online classifieds for leads... the best of luck is what I wish them.

When I was fired as PD down in Phoenix, they escorted me out of the building. Within a week they had me back inside teaching the new PD how to use Selector. It turns out, I knew more than anyone in the building about the program and had set it up beyond their experience level. It was quite funny being able to look at all the clocks and rotations the new PD set up after me. Nothing like having 9 power currents 3x per hour with no kick. Anyone want to plot that one on a grid? You think I told them about their rotations? Ha! They trusted me enough to teach them the basics of Selector so I left on good terms. I taught him Selector over the next 4 days (and got paid for it) without telling him how to program. It was a pleasure to see them die a slow death.

What sucks is I left so much my music at the station and didn't know it until I needed it. I had better music service for Energy 98 at home than the radio station. (and still do )

It does feel like a cold environment when you're let go, but most people don't have the luxury to work for their friends.

It was many years ago, (I was in College at the time, so late '60's) someone sagely said to me...."Remember kid, there are only two kinds of people in the radio business. Those that have been fired and those that will be."

A very astute observation then, and now.
Cheers,

Joe: Mike Phillips told me exactly the same thing (when I was bragging about having never been fired!) He was, of course, right.

.....Within a week they had me back inside teaching the new PD how to use Selector......

What I have always wondered, is why we do that?

(I say "we" because I have also gone back after a firing to help a station out of a jam.. probably plenty others as well.)

They treat us crappy, then ask us to help them out of a jam, and we do it. Satisfaction of proving to be the better man I guess, but the other side never seems to learn the importance of that message....

Are you talking about KUPL or tv station

PD Ken Draper said many years ago something like "I don't even look at your resume unless you've been fired at least twice."

I worked for him once. Programming DB. I think I had only been fired once then. (That was a long time ago too, LOL)

Joe- I heard loads of Ken Draper and Chuck Blore (sp?) stories when I worked with Ted Rogers.

I'm a professional, and I expect to be treated like one. Any PD or station manager who might ever be stupid enough to treat me in such a cavalier and rude fashion, had better be on his own way out of town, if he knows what's good for him. Otherwise, he might be in public with his wife and kidlings one day, and run into me. Then, he will learn that us "old school" DJs are very good at extemporaneous speaking, and commanding an audience. (What, did you think I was about to advocate violence?) There have been a few folks, in my past, who were rude to me, and were thereafter unlucky enough to have the most embarrassing two minutes of their lives, in front of their loved ones. I particularly remember my former boss (not from radio) who had the indignity of being handcuffed by a uniformed officer, and then told he was being arrested for sexual abuse of a minor, right as he was getting ready to board a plane for a vacation with his wife and adult children. (I'll post the whole story sometime, for your amusement.)

P.S. Revenge IS a dish best served cold.

Mick: I'm not sure which entry you're describing as "cavalier and rude" that you would even consider humiliating him in front of his family. And I sincerely hope you don't mean to suggest that you had a former boss arrested for sexual abuse unfairly!?!

Mick:
I also hope you don't post the entire story. What purpose would that serve?

The best "revenge" against an old boss is to become successful. I suggest taking the high road here and leave the "revengeful" stuff for the losers.

Mick is someone I wouldn't want within 100 miles of any radio station I was ever affiliated with. His post smacked of "I am God and you'd better not mess with me or else." People like Mick aren't worth the time of day.

I thought ice cream was a dish best served cold.

my mistake.

The best thing that ever happened to me was getting fired at KINK, even though my then-boyfriend-now-husband got fired two weeks later and we had to live without a regular paycheck for nearly a year. I got fired on a Friday (obviously didn't take The Course) and that Monday I marched us down to Office Depot and bought my first computer, over the boyfriend-now-husband's extreme protest ("Are you crazy?! WE DON'T HAVE JOBS!"). The Rest--Is--Histrey! as we sit here next to each other in our living room with laptops on our, uh, laps, earning our living peacefully at home with our kids. Life after radio. I has one.

Lynns-
My wife and I met in radio and worked at KPDQ as a married couple for several years. She was let go in July of 91 and I was let go in Nov. of 92. It was our definitive moment as a couple and as broadcasters.

Neither of us had ever been fired before. I count our blessings everyday. For one we're still in radio and two we do it from home so we can be with our kids too.

It's hard to see the good when you get fired. It's all about how you choose to deal with it that will determine your choices and actions.

I don't hold any grudges against those that let me go. Sure it hurt at the time but you certainly get to know what you're made of when those things happen.

I had a great run. Did it my way. No ( or not many regrets in the radio biz ). Just got too much grey on the top, and a few too many lines in the face some extra weight around the middle and wasnt the best " image builder on remotes anymore " although my teeth are still mine and look nice and white and I can still smile without creeping the crap outtah everybody !

Its all about money, and if you dont have the big ratings to fall back on, then its all about the other stuff... like sell the sizzle do the sales song and dance to get paid advertising on the log and half of that becomes what everyone from the AE to the Talent looks and acts like on a remote. The other half is what the Talent sounds like on the air sandwiched in with the rest of the programming. In this day and time, what you "sound like" is less important that what you 'look like' and actually 'what you say' on the air not so much how you say things. Fewer people care about 'finese factor' anymore...Us older timer types were taught 'finese' as much as anything else.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw Mick's post as one of the scariest and most unprofessional screeds posted here in a long time.

Roger - re icecream - funniest thing you've ever posted.

and some of us consider ourselves as true professionals..case in point..my leaving KPNW after 18 years. I was asked to stay on an extra 2 weeks at the time they fired me. I handled it like the true pro that I was taught to be (good Southern Oregon training) At the end of my 2 weeks, I took 2 minutes at the end of my shift to say goodbye...all very above board. It was tempting to unload on the new company that was taking over, but there are other ways to get even..its called the Arbitron.

Gosh, sorry I upset the boys in the band! By the way, Tdanner, one of the scariest things I have seen in my lifetime, is the way no one in Oregon seems to value their good name or integrity to the point they are actually willing to stand up for themselves, or on the other hand, be perfectly willing to disparage someone else without good reason. A State of Sheep! After 25 years in Oregon, it's still the one thing I find hardest to grasp. My point was that for someone to imply, by word or action, that I am a thief or a saboteur, is simply not something I will put up with. Period. As a midwestern farm boy, I was taught that the one thing nobody can take from you, without your consent, is your good name. I have found there are two ways to deal with evil people: physically or verbally. Generally, verbally is better, because it's not usually actionable at law. Of course, when I was young and impressionable (like many of the posters herein, apparently), I had to occasionally put up with crap from above. At past half a century however, I no longer allow persons to be disrespectful to me, when there is no reason, and I have not offended them (Outsider, are you listening?). As to the story about the former boss, it is actually quite funny, and no, nobody got arrested, or in fact, publicly humiliated, but a real a&&hole learned a well-deserved lesson. As I said, I'm writing it down, and I will post it into another thread within a few days. I'm sure that once you read it, you will understand more about what I am talking about.
'Nuff Said!

---

quote:

Author: Dan_mullin
Monday, May 12, 2008 - 9:35 pm

and some of us consider ourselves as true professionals..case in point..my leaving KPNW after 18 years. I was asked to stay on an extra 2 weeks at the time they fired me. I handled it like the true pro that I was taught to be (good Southern Oregon training) At the end of my 2 weeks, I took 2 minutes at the end of my shift to say goodbye...all very above board. It was tempting to unload on the new company that was taking over, but there are other ways to get even..its called the Arbitron.

---

"I have found there are two ways to deal with evil people: physically or verbally. "

Many of us here know some very evil people. You may work with some or have them in your family. They certainly make life miserable.

It's one thing to stand on ones principles, it's another to unleash them. Whether it be verbal or physical in how you handle the situation, you are lowering yourself to the evil persons level. There is nothing to gain to share your story of revenge as far as I can see.

Just some words of advice, I don't think anyone here really cares about your story except you.

"I have found there are two ways to deal with evil people: physically or verbally."

Usually it's best to do nothing, and save your energy. These people ALWAYS get what they deserve sooner or later, and you don't have to lift a finger. It's called Karma.

Touche' Merk.

....Author: Mickproper
Monday, May 12, 2008 - 9:37 pm

As a midwestern farm boy, I was taught that the one thing nobody can take from you, without your consent, is your good name....(Outsider, are you listening?).....


Yeah, I'm listening. And I'm NOT impressed. I live in the Midwest, Nebraska to be exact(But was born and raised in Portland). And I'll tell ya, there are just as many screwballs, jackasses and evil people here as there are anywhere else. Don't try to claim any "special status" just because of where you're from, or because of how old you are(I'm 53 and I've been jobbed more than once myself. And I haven't ever responded with the kind of hatred-fueled revenge that you seem to brag about).

I did not like your first post because of the overwhelming meanness in it. The second post isn't any better. It still smack of "Don't screw with me, lor I'll respond with both barrels." If a former employer does something that's actionable, thenm by all means, pursue things legally. You just seem hell bent on phuquing people over, after you feel they've somehow screwed you.

As far as your "story" you clainm you are working on: Don't bother. Sentiment so far expressed here indicates there's no interest in it.

Waylon Jennings had an album title that says it all: "What Goes Around Comes Around."

I forget who told me this, but I heard it when I was very young, and it has served me well over the past 40+ years, saying essentially the same thing: "You get back what you give out."

What hurt and urge-for-revenge I had in the past was neutralized very quickly by not wasting the effort in plotting my response to the perp, and putting that energy to work more creatively for myself and others around me... I ended up far more ahead than I was before, and they usually got theirs in the end...

So, let it go...

Here's a company that got fired... and is dealing with it like grownups.

http://philbernstein.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/how-to-lose-gracefully/

"Don't screw with me, lor I'll respond with both barrels."

Mental health professionals have a name for this kind of behavior... Megalomania, is it?

"...the love you take is equal to the love you make."

Phil,
Thanks for sharing that with us. It was a great read.

I would have loved (more than once) to "stick it" to an employer who fired me. In fact, I'd love to do that right now, after getting let go from a job I held for two years. But what good would that do, especially in broadcasting, where jobs are getting fewer and farther between all the time?

I don't know why Mickproper is so bitter and so arrogant. But if he thinks he's truly offended no one in the work force, then add dillusional to the list of other problems he already has.

.......funniest thing you've ever posted......

So does that mean my posts are usually funny, but this was the funniest or of all of my posts, this one happened to be funny, therefore, the funniest....

Since you asked..........
like the Singing Nun - you're a one hit wonder.

I will also echo Outsiders appreciation of the article from Phil.

When my wife lost her radio job in 91' and me in 92' our first order of business was to get our professional house in order. That meant contacting unemployment. A very demeaning experience to say the least. One I hope to never repeat.

I was not the most important person at the radio station. I was expendable, I could be replaced. And were several times.

Now that my wife and I have been doing our own thing for all these years and reaping awards beyond just the monetary, I do appreciate those of you who are still in the throes of working for others.

If you ever get a chance and want to walk on the wild side and chase your dream, let me know. I'll be your number one cheerleader. (Not to worry I've got nice legs and know how to us pom poms professionally)

I hope you fare better than she, Roger!

Department heads who find it necessary to terminate an employee need to understand that one of the possible reactions is a 22 caliber in the forehead. (Or being accused of child abuse or whatever.)
The point is to think long and hard about who you hire and who you fire.

The rule of thumb is: the person getting fired is not at fault. It's the fault of the manager for not managing properly. If the manager can't take that responsibility, expect a bullet.

I never really thought of it that way before. Wow.

Does this same philosophy of yours extend to significant others who break up with you(They chose poorly...)? Teachers who give you a bad grade (they failed to teach you after all...)? I'm assuming it would be globally applied.

The first time I was ever fired from a radio gig was after 14 years in the business. The legendary Dr. Don Rose took me to breakfast, heard my story and said "14 years!! What took you so long? I was fired from my first 5 jobs!!"

Life is a state of mind.

For me that state is Hawaii.

Aww state of confusion.

...Yes, but once you're a one hit wonder, you get invited to all kinds of things, like "Celebrity Badminton" on ESPN 5, and Grand openings of "Dented Can Warehouse", "Day Old Flowers R Us", and "The Used Bread Store".

I FINALLY MADE IT, all thanks to you. I better get my agent working on lining up these appearances.

"Ordinary People" magazine just called, and they're doing a feature on The 10,000 funniest people who ever posted anything on an internet chat board. I have been named an alternate and given an honorable mention.

Thanks for the support.

My daughter told me something that happened to her just a few days ago somewhat relative to all the hub ub about employment and the process it takes from time to time.

She applied and got a job as a nurse tech" for the summer at a hospital here. They are for mid term RN nursing students that are 1 year away from their licenses. Anyway, she was sitting in front of the HR person at the hospital completing the applications and scheduling the orientation. The HR lady got up from her desk for a moment and my daughter saw a sticky Post It note stuck to one of her paperwork forms, the one from the office that does the pre employment urine 'pee in the cup drug test'..thing you know..so she can read upside down and the print was in great big letters that said..." THIS PERSON WAS RATHER RUDE AND UNPLEASANT TO OUR STAFF HERE !"..

Well, she wasnt rude , didnt have any problems with anyone or peeing in the cup either ! Turns out one of the other applicants that she knows had an issue holding her 'pee' because she somehow got the wrong idea where and what time in what office and building she had to 'hit the cup' ! She wound up 'leaking' a little bit as a result and was MAD over it..So it was ANOTHER applicant that smarted off to someone in that office. See what happens, some 'office cubical beatch'...gets mad and fingers the wrong person which could affect their employment ! In this case it evidently DID NOT ! So my kid didnt say anything about it when the HR lady came back and read the note...she didnt seem to react to it at all...

I don't see where the other pre-employment person was some "office cubical beatch"....although I do see you admit that 2 other young ladies testing near the same time did have some problems.

Yeah, a post it note got onto the wrong form apparently, or was moved from the correct form while being read. It didn't impact your kid's employment, suggesting the mislabeling may have been caught, and there seems to have been no malice involved.

Why the name calling?

beatch can be either male or female in my mind, which is why I spelled the way I did. You know someone like in the movie Office Space.

What I was 'beatching' about in this was the way somebody does a 'post it note' attachment to the wrong application paperwork and how it can impact the WRONG person. No, a postit note attached to my kid's form was a mistake on the part of the complaining party in all probability.

If you are going to dynamite some new hire to HR justified or not, make damned sure you have the bomb planted in the right backpack.

I told my daughter she did the right thing by not mentioning it under the circumstances. But, she had better be prepared to defend herself if it somehow comes up in the future.